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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 09-15-2018, 10:43 AM   #29
MuseChaser
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Originally Posted by BryanE View Post
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Winter tires might take a while because money. I have the stock tS Pilot tires that's gn have to do.

No, it is NOT going to have to do, and it won't do. I am a serious penny pincher, and hate to spend money, but this is one instance where you simply must find a way to buy a set of snow tires, especially if you have have no experience driving in snow.. I'll get to some tips there in a bit. Most of the good advice here has been in prepping the car, but not much has been said yet about prepping the driver...
Sell something if you have to, trade, barter, whatever.. but get snow tires. That's not up for debate. Yes, they cost money, but they are a LOT cheaper than hospitals.


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Warming up the car I've always done since I take a sec to choose music
Leave the music off while you're driving in snow, at least until you've driven on bad roads for a while. You'll hear the engine rev when you lose traction almost faster than you'll feel it, and it might give you a little extra time to correct. NO music... concentration on driving.


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The extra weight on the back of the car definitely changes the characteristics, had about 100lbs in there for a month and once i cleared everything out of the car it felt so light and different
Absolutely. I'm in the "no extra weight in the back" camp, too. Yes, you get a little more traction at first.. but when you break traction and the back end slides, the back end has more momentum 'cause of the extra weight and takes more effort to correct.


OK.. winter driving tips..


1. Don't do ANYTHING fast or suddenly... slow, very gradual acceleration, gentle steering inputs (unless correcting a skid, depending upon severity.. more on that in a bit).


2. If automatic transmission, do not use "Sport Mode" or whatever it's called on these cars. The goal is to stay in upper gears longer that have less torque. In a manual transmission, upshift a bit sooner than you would normally. If you're having trouble getting rolling, try starting out in 2nd gear. Rev match precisely and carefully when down shifting, and only down shift when necessary to prevent lugging.



3. Braking.. virtually all cars these days have antilock brakes, and the advice there is usually just, in an emergency, smash'em down and let the car deal with it. I grew up w/out antilock brakes, and just can't bring myself to do that. Even with antilocks, I brake very lightly, stay FAR away from other drivers so that when I do need to brake I have plenty of time to do it. Stay far away from other drivers... do NOT tailgate. Usually the advice is stay 2 seconds behind even on good roads. Double that to at least four seconds on bad roads, more if you can. Brake lightly.. feather. The minute you lose traction, GET OFF THE BRAKE. That's the hardest thing for folks to get used to.. do NOT brake if you're sliding. Pump, pump, pump, pump... fast. That's what antilock brakes do for you, so you can still steer a bit. I do that manually (ok... "footily" .. but you get the idea)... old habit, and it still works.


4. OK... sliding/skidding. When the car starts to skid, you'll feel/hear the engine rev for no apparent reason and the back end will start sliding to one side or the other. If the back end slides to the right (it'll look like you're turning left through the windshield), ease off the gas and TURN TO THE RIGHT too... steer into the skid. The amount you have to steer corresponds to the suddenness/severity of the skid. Steer just enough to get the back end under control and restore traction; if you over-correct, you'll initiate a skid in the opposite direction and thinks can get worse fast. GO TO AN ABANDONED SNOWY PARKING LOT AND PRACTICE THIS!!! It's fun, and you'll get the hang of it in no time.


TLDR; Clear/scrape all windows, start car, no music, do everything slowly, steer into skids, foot off the gas and don't brake in skids, and if at all possible practice a bunch before joining other drivers on the road.


AND... assume everyone else on the roads drives worse than you do.. stay away from them.
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:48 AM   #30
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And clean off the roof too. Leaving snow on your car will blind the driver behind you at speed. It will also slide down onto the windshield when you stop.
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Old 09-15-2018, 12:09 PM   #31
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And clean off the roof too. Leaving snow on your car will blind the driver behind you at speed. It will also slide down onto the windshield when you stop.

Yep... good catch.. sorry I forgot that. We call folks who are too lazy to clear off their roofs in this area "rolling blizzards;" you can't see a thing when you're behind them.
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Old 09-15-2018, 01:38 PM   #32
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Everyone saying not to put weight in the rear.... 40 lbs seriously does not make THAT much of a difference and the tube of sand can help immensely if you get stuck. These aren't trucks, you dont need to drop 100+ lbs in the bed.

As far as tires.... yeah. Buy them. Stock non ts wheels are basically given away on this forum or find some forester steelies. You can buy some older winter tires on Ebay or find someone dropping a winter setup on here.... anything but the stockers in your situation and with the ts.

Keep us apprised of your situation and part out threads. At least this winter doesn't seem like it will be too bad for the midwest, right?

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Old 09-15-2018, 04:05 PM   #33
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It's Great-n-Dayton. I've spent the past 5 winters in Pittsburgh and Cleveland, driving my '13 BRZ on all seasons. Pilot Sports AS3's. Biggest worry is getting caught out during a snow storm before the streets are plowed/salted. On ice last winter along i-80 in PA, the car was stable while many others were in the ditch. Only place I've ever been stuck is in my driveway. Real snow tires will reduce the white-knuckling, but the car has a good stability control system and so far, so good. In Dayton, all seasons will be fine. Hope this helps.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:57 AM   #34
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Winter tires it is.

Any suggestions?
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Winter tires it is.

Any suggestions?
Certainly,



If you can find them and afford them. Nokian Hakkapeliita R2 or R3. Considered the best, but very pricey. I haven't seen a test where these weren't considered 1st choice.



If not, Bridgestone Blizzaks and Michelin X-ice tires are also top tier and less difficult to find. However both are also pricey.



Best value would be the ones I'm using Gislaved NordFrost tires. Can stay toe-to-toe with the best tires for a reasonable price. Its a Swedish tire owned by Continental, most people remember them for being the Volvo choice of tire. Pricing is upper mid which is good when its near top.



Best of the cheap tires is almost certainly the General Altimax Arctic, its essentially an older Gislaved tire. No longer top tier but still above average and considering its low price probably the best bargain.
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:31 PM   #36
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Winter tires it is.

Any suggestions?
First response in the thread....
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:49 PM   #37
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Recently stationed in Minot.. I'm from Cali I know what you're going thru~ but seriously get dedicated winter tires. We had some days -40F let your engine/trans warm up. (Wouldn't go into 2nd for a 1/2 mile or so) only major issue i ran into was i needed a battery with higher than normal cold cranking amps. A memeber mentioned car wash with under body spray, I did that, helps immensely. Always a blast if u have the right tires for the specific task =)

Also.. when the freezing temps hit i put fresh Eng/trans/diff fluids & changed again when ND came out of freezing temps. Maybe its just my OCD but i believe this would help improve the longevity of those components~

Edit: I ran continental wintercontact si 205/50/17 on OE rims

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Old 09-16-2018, 01:49 PM   #38
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Everyone saying not to put weight in the rear.... 40 lbs seriously does not make THAT much of a difference and the tube of sand can help immensely if you get stuck. These aren't trucks, you dont need to drop 100+ lbs in the bed.
Yeah. I guess that's true. There are bigger issues at play if that bag of kitty litter is the deal breaker.
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:39 PM   #39
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For straight winter/snow tires, Blizzaks and/or X-Ices are the go-tos for most people IMO.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:57 AM   #40
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General Altimax Arctic are great in snow and slush. They are wiggly in dry conditions and while I would not run them in a car I didn't need to drive regardless of the weather (I’d use performance winter tires for that), they are a great choice if you have to get through the snow and slop no matter what.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:18 PM   #41
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I have PLENTY of snow experience with this car here in Chicago. Haven't read through this thread, but here are my points, assuming you live in a climate similar to ours, with cold winter temperatures, and some degree of snowfall.

First, to address your bullet points:
  • Weight at Rear: I've never used any, and never had any issues. I don't like the idea of adding mass to the rear of the vehicle. It's already plenty tail-happy in the winter.
  • Rust Protection: I've never added any, and after four winters, I only have some basic surface rust. My thoughts (though I've never used it) are that I doubt rust protection would cover EVERYTHING if you had it done, in which case if the car was going to develop rust issues, it would probably develop them regardless. I just regularly wash the car in the winter. It's a BRZ; not a Ferrari.
  • Winter Tires: Well, you definitely can't drive the car at ALL in the snow with the stock Primacys. If you are one of the few that got a car that came with the all-seasons, then you wouldn't have an issue on cold, dry pavement (where the Primacys struggle), but any amount of snow or ice would still be a huge pain in the ass. Just do yourself a favor and buy winter tires, which will allow you use proper summer tires in the summer, which a car of this caliber deserves.
  • Anti-Freeze: The stuff that came in your car from the factory is fine unless you're planning on a trek to the arctic tundra of the North/South pole.
  • Warm Car Up Before Operating: I do the same thing year-round. I start the car. I let it sit for the 30-or-so seconds that it remains in that loud, "initial startup" mode with the exhaust droning. This allows time for the oil to flow to all the areas of the engine, and start providing basic protection. As soon as it completes that mode, I drive. 30 seconds. That's it. You are welcome to let the car sit if you prefer the interior to be warm before you drive, but you aren't doing the vehicle any favors by letting it sit for more than a few seconds. An idle engine will take a LONG time to get up to operating temperature - especially on cold days. In that entire time it is warming up, it is operating outside of its normal range. This means poor tolerances, and increased wear-and-tear. The best option (though this differs depending on who you ask) is to give it a few seconds to allow the oil to flow, and then DRIVE THE CAR gently until it comes up to full temperature. This warms the engine up MUCH more quickly, reducing the time spent operating outside of the ideal temperature range. I just keep the RPMs below 3-4,000 until that happens.


Some additional notes:

As far as what brand of tire. I use General Altimax Arctics on my BRZ here in Chicago, and have yet to have any issues with them. I had Blizzak WS70s on my old Outback, and while they were great, I have two issues with the Blizzaks. First, and most obviously, they are more expensive. That, in and of itself is not something that I would normally complain about. I'm a firm believer in buying the best tire you can afford. I run Michelin Pilot Super Sports on my car in the summer, which are far from cheap. However, I do have an issue with the cost because of the second issue I have with them: only HALF of the tread is the special winter rubber compound. Once you've worn the tires down to a certain point, the rubber becomes just regular all-season rubber. Arguably when they are worn down that far, the tread siping is gone, and they should be replaced anyway, but I don't understand why I have to pay $40/tire MORE, when only HALF the tread is the special compound.

Additionally, most of the winter you are going to be driving on dry pavement. Winter tires aren't anywhere near as sticky as summer tires, which makes it even more tempting to hoon the car around on dry pavement. With the Blizzaks, you are always aware of the fact that you are wearing through that limited special winter compound on your more-expensive tires when you do that. The Generals are cheaper, and the entire tread is winter compound. Those two things mean I don't feel bad messing around with them in the winter. It's entirely a mental thing, but it still bothers me.

They're also just genuinely good winter tires, even if the Blizzaks are slightly better. Here's some of the fun stuff I do on those tires in the winter:



[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHa8pI5fGnE[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0wAwDQp6Ek[/ame]
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:24 PM   #42
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Just wanted to add, I feel like having weight in the rear serves to make recovery of an unintended skid more difficult due to added inertia. You'll have more grip for start/stop, but after having driven a lot in the snow with this car, I can say that with good tires, start/stop with patience should never been an issue. If you're stuck, then you're stuck. The advice in this thread is awesome, trust us!
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