BMW talk

[RaceR]

BMW talk, and all that is related!

[RaceR]

12 FWD BMW and MINI Models Approved, Out of Up to 20 Proposed Models



It's no secret that BMW has aspirations to move into the compact premium FWD car market, having recently debuted its BMW Concept Active Tourer (which will launch as a production model next year). BMW believes that its new FWD architecture, known as the UKL platform (which will be shared with future MINI models), will be key to driving the company's future growth.

The company projects that the premium small car market will become the fastest-growing segment and it needs to expand aggressively into this market in order to battle for the top spot in luxury car sales over the next decade.

Up to 20 New Models Proposed

So just how expansive will BMW's FWD lineup be? According to some recent reports, very extensive.

Frank Niederlaender, the company's product manager for front-wheel drive, says in an interview with Automotive News Europe, that up to 12 BMW and Mini cars [already approved], accounting for 40 percent of the group's unit sales, will be underpinned by the platform, or variations of it, within eight to 10 years. Europe will be the main market for BMW FWD cars.

"We've got plans to produce up to 20 new models on this platform. Not all of them have been approved yet – we’ve got approval on 10-12 new models," confirms Ian Robertson, member of the board of management at BMW.

Europe is leading a global trend where customers are downsizing to smaller models, both because they have less cash to spend and because regulators are introducing tougher CO2 emission limits. But Niederlaender sees opportunities in other major markets. "We are seeing growing acceptance of smaller premium cars in the U.S. and China," he said. In the United States, customers may choose a FWD BMW as a secondary household vehicle, he said.

Klaus Draeger, BMW's head of purchasing, who helped create the UKL architecture during his tenure as the company's R&D boss, said the FWD platform will be used for a wide variety of smaller BMWs and Minis. "There will be several options for different wheel bases and widths of upcoming models.

Limited to Models Below 3 Series

"With one model family, we can do a typical front-wheel hatchback, a larger hatchback, or a small SUV. We can use that architecture not only for the Mini but also for other BMW products that are a little bit bigger and higher and more spacious with a bigger interior." He said BMW's larger vehicles from the 3 series and upward will remain rear-wheel drive. "These are powerful cars so I really don't see a front-wheel-drive model in this segment as being as successful," Draeger added.

Breaking with RWD Tradition

As for the doubters and traditionalists who fear and lament over BMW's expansion into the FWD market, BMW's product manager for front-wheel drive, Frank Niederlaender, assures: "In the '90s we broke with tradition when we began selling SUVs along with our sedans. Customers realized they could get the driving dynamics BMW is renowned for from an SUV. We will see the same transition happening with front-wheel drive."

Draeger adds that by 2020 the automaker expects to have a huge share in fwd models. "We are entering into new segments and are getting new customers who will learn you can drive very well with front-wheel drive."

FWD FWD FWD.... :/ Interesting to read about the market tough..

[RaceR]

Some "inside" information. I found it interesting. And a lot about future models!

By 2020. BMW hope to have projected sales of over two million units.
The larger majority of this level of sales will be combined MINI/BMW based upon the UKL architecture of around 600,000 units , then you can factor in another large number of dedicated SAV sales before we get to the regular series models. As I have said before welcome to the automobile industry.

It is easy for the question "if I was in charge this what I would do?"
But today you have to take in consideration of growing segments , established segments , established markets , new markets and exploiting new niche's. Something BMW is well adapt in.

The rise of the compact premium car is effectively down to current situations. Why are mainstream volume manufacturers struggling in europe when Premium compact cars from Premium manufacturers are creating growth? Nearly twenty years ago we something similar in the executive side of the market , Premium manufacturers wiped out mainstream manufacturers market share practically overnight.
Potentially a similar act can happen again.


MINI currently has a razor-thin profit margin on the standard car , where BMW makes its money with MINI is in the purchase of specific packages and extended personalisation. The next MINI launched next summer will not only help MINI make money off of personalisation , but the car will become more profitable for the first time in its life span. Modern car making is now down to cost and sharing modular architecture provides a cost-effective option.

Individuality is the key to distinguish the BMW from the MINI. Which is why the BMW Active Tourer Concept and its sister car the MINI Traveller which will be seen very soon are effectively the same car but you will never know it everything that should be BMW is BMW and everything that is MINI is MINI.
From the design , switchear and even how the car acts the brief was always about distinguishing one brand from another.
If you take the example here. The artist understands the DNA aspect and that a 3dr and 5dr hatch will be coming to rival the Audi A1. That car is derived from the Active Tourer but his its own appearance that benefits its premium entry status. with the proprtions shrunk this render minus the front shows the outline and surfacing of the hatch and it is just not a MINI re-badged with a BMW badge.

To provide greater economies of scale A FWD BMW sedan will become part of the new BMW FWD family. Expanding BMW's entry sporthatch to include a sedan variant aimed at markets for rising sales of small sedans.
As BMW announced lately that up to 11 models could appear from BMW on the UKL architecture with MINI, providing better profits and increased global sales for the small cars division.

So far the BMW/MINI UKL family stands as...

BMW 1er Urbanic Compact 3/5dr - Upcoming City hatch based on next MINI, BMW's Audi A1 rival.
MINI 3/5dr - Increased demand leads to the next generation MINI due next year with five drs for the 1st time.

BMW 1er Sedan - Baby sedan off the UKL architecture aimed at global markets for small sedans.
MINI Sedan - Sporty four dr MINI aimed at increasing markets for MINI products, potentially could be MINI's best global seller overtaking the Countryman.

BMW 1er Active Tourer - Production version of Active Tourer Concept launched at Iaa 2013.
MINI Traveller - MINI variant of the Active Tourer. Designed to show how both cars can co-exist with individual style and flexibility.

BMW 1er Urbanic Roadster - BMW's open top variant of the City car inherits two seats only with a rear deck with layed butresses like the BMW 6er Cabrio and BMW i8 designed for clip on roof panel.
MINI Cabrio - Latest F56 rendition of the popular open top MINI.

BMW Z1 Sportster - To provide greater economies of scale The Z1 will be BMW's equivalent to the MINI Coupe and Roadster , but will be FWD and powered by more powerful three cylinder engines. Design derived from well-received 2011 Vision ConnectedDrive concept car.
MINI Roadster - Next Roadster and Coupe will launch with a sportier look which is completely seperate from the standard MINI. MINI design elements will feature but bodywork is not based on the hatch family.

BMW Z1 SportCoupe - Coupe version of the Z1 will complete the BMW Z twins against the MINI twins.
MINI Coupe - Coupe version of Roadster , more individual in appearance.

BMW X1 - Next generation of highly successful SAV moves to the UKL architecture to offer more flexibility.
Also available with xDrive.
MINI Countryman - Next generation of the global MINI juggernaut. heavily shared with BMW X1.

BMW X2 - Sport Activity Coupe variant of the next BMW X1 , FWD with optional xDrive and the first BMW SAC to appear as both a 3dr and 5dr.
MINI Paceman/XL - Next generation of new MINI member will be offered with five dr version as well as 3dr.

BMW F.amily A.ctivity S.ports T.ourer - BMW's hybrid of SAV solidity , MPV space and Touring bodystyle.
MINI Clubman - Current car revisited with more style and more flexibility , more of a Shooting Brake with dynamic raked roof and forward looking proportions.


And of course the next generation 1er due in 2017 will resort to being FWD.
Then you can begin the RWD Compact family.

BMW 2er Coupe - Coupe version of the 1er hatch. Unique front and rear style , with more sleeker rounded roof but still compact proportions. Premieres IAA 2013.
BMW 2er Cabrio - Cabrio version continues unique appearance of the Coupe , retains soft-top.
BMW 2er Gran Coupe - 4dr addition of 2er Coupe with slightly lengthened wheelbase and roof line, aimed at BMW's RWD dominance against Audi A3 Sedan and Mercedes-Benz CLA.
BMW 2er Gran Sports Tourer - Hyundai Veloster type A-symmetrical Tourer Coupe inspired by classic 2002 Touring variant, has many admirers in Munich.

BMW M2 Coupe - Successor to the BMW 1er M Coupe continues the same formula that made the last car be memorable, no huge competitor in the HP race , four cylinder will bring less weight , which matter most as does more enjoyment and overall feel is considered to be more of a priority than who has the biggest numbers.
BMW M2 Gran Coupe - Baby Coupe inherits a four door brother - 340 HP , Four doors and RWD , Direct competitor to the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG.

There will be a Z1.. But FWD. :/
BMW M2 Coupe will have 4 cylinder according to this. And 340HP. So, that will be more of a classic E30/E36/E46 M3, but with turbos.

[einzlr]

Looks like BMW may once again prove that they are as clever at staying afloat in times of adversity as they are at engineering. I'm sure you know that they got into cars because after WWII they were forbidden from making aircraft engines. Now market forces are preventing them from staying profitable with their traditional RWD platform, so they venture out into new segments. I wonder, though, if they're spreading themselves too thin with so very many new models. Looks like the M2 Coupe is the one to watch. I'd love to see them offer one car at least that gets back to their automotive roots.

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by einzlr

Looks like BMW may once again prove that they are as clever at staying afloat in times of adversity as they are at engineering. I'm sure you know that they got into cars because after WWII they were forbidden from making aircraft engines. Now market forces are preventing them from staying profitable with their traditional RWD platform, so they venture out into new segments. I wonder, though, if they're spreading themselves too thin with so very many new models. Looks like the M2 Coupe is the one to watch. I'd love to see them offer one car at least that gets back to their automotive roots.

I knew they where into airplanes. Hence the logo sympolising an airplane propeller. But that was it.. :p


Is it really marketing forces that makes them less profitable with RWD cars?
BMW does not exactly have economical problems. I think they are just acknowledging that their opponents (Audi/VAG mainly) have economical benefits and they don't want to miss out on them. BMW will probably earn more money doing so, but I think they will hurt the brand a little.

I believe BMWs reasons for going into the FWD market are mainly due to these reasons:
1. Having a platform for many cars makes production cost lower, which is very important to be profitable. VAG have a ton of models based on the same platforms. That is their advantage. BMW needs to do something similar.
2. Most 1-series drivers don't even know they drive an RWD car. So that means BMW are actually making cars that are more expensive to manufacture than their FWD rivals. 80% think their 1-series is FWD according to this.
3. More segments=more potential buyers=more profit. Audi are almost moving in front of BMW in terms of sales, and BMW needs to make counter measurements by trying to attract a larger customer base.
4. RWD takes up more back seat space. For those customers looking for practical small premium cars, competitors offer more back seat space. So they have cost, practicality and weight advantages by building FWD cars.

Why I don't like it based on first impressions.
-Small RWD cars, the cars im interested in will probably get phased out and be replaced by less attractive FWD models. 1-series F20/F21 will probably end production in 2017 when the FWD cars steps in. My only hope is the 2-series. But in time. That might also become FWD.
-The Mini, which is one of the few FWD cars I like will probably become even larger when built on the new platform.
-BMW have always been, the ultimate driving machine. with mostly rwd 50:50 weight distribution etc.. That will be gone.. They will probably become more mainstream. A Z1 coupe would be a great sports car right!? But no, they are making it fwd... It could have so much potential as a RWD! That is a bit frustrating..


Im waiting exited for I4 new tough. Hope that will be a start of something awesome! Might be revealed this weekend on the 2012 LA Auto Show.

The BMW i4 will be based off the i3 city vehicle, but will be a two seater i8-like sports car - a more affordable i8 for the masses. If true, the i4 would surely utilize the same carbon fiber construction and hybrid drivetrain as the i3.

[Wes B.]

I would love it if BMW released an updated version of this!

[RaceR]

^

Can hope for M2 CSL.. Would probably be the closest thing.

[einzlr]

RaceR, we're actually saying the same thing, maybe tripping over the words a bit lol. BMW is going mainstream for profitability, moving away from their roots (rwd, 50/50, NA I6, near-perfect balance of DD-ability and handling).

Of course we enthusiasts will hang onto every shred of hope that there'll be another CSL and all the other past cars that we loved, but meanwhile we can be grateful that Japan appears to be picking up the ball. In some ways it's like the '70s all over again hehe.

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by einzlr

RaceR, we're actually saying the same thing, maybe tripping over the words a bit lol.

I blame it on the "gluegg" (aka gløgg, julegløgg)

[RaceR]

Probobaly no i4 to be revealed, but i3 COUPE!

I think it looks good for what it is (a smaller city-compact).








Said by BMW rep:
For a car in amongst its competition the i3 in prototype form is proving to be not only very refined but also there is a fair amount of BMW-dynasm to keep the keen driver interested thanks to its very throwable lightweight body, despite being an electric car the i3 loves corners.

What is awesome with this car:
-Lighweight, use of carbon-fibre and carbon fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP)
-RWD
-170hp / 184 lb-ft torque. (Always availabe!)
-Low center of gravity (batteries under the floor)
-Useable back-seats and no b-pillar
-Tyres measuring 155/60 R20 at the front and 175/55 R20 at the rear (low rolling resistance)


Less good:
-range of 100miles/160km (not bad, but not very good either)

BAD:
- Driving modes are limited to: COMFORT, ECO PRO and ECO PRO+
(NO SPORT, or SPORT+)

Other:
-Weight distribution is probably very good (engine at the back).
-I have a bad feeling electronics cant be turned properly off and that it generally will not be that sporty driving it on the edge.

Despite being so different, I kinda see many similarities between this and the Toybaru. :p
This electric city-like car could actually have the potential to be a pretty good drivers car.

[White Shadow]

Like many people here, I have zero interst in ANY front-wheel-drive car. I've owned two FWD cars in the past and I don't want to strike out by buying a 3rd! lol

BTW, I'm shocked that such a high percentag of 1-series drivers don't know that their cars are RWD. That says a lot about the people who are buying those cars. I thought a much higher percentage would have been enthusiasts.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by RaceR

I blame it on the "gluegg" (aka gløgg, julegløgg)

well played

And thanks for correcting my spelling - I sort of borrowed from German while trying to remember what my Danish friends used to call it way back when. How's that for an excuse

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Like many people here, I have zero interst in ANY front-wheel-drive car. I've owned two FWD cars in the past and I don't want to strike out by buying a 3rd! lol

BTW, I'm shocked that such a high percentag of 1-series drivers don't know that their cars are RWD. That says a lot about the people who are buying those cars. I thought a much higher percentage would have been enthusiasts.

I hear you, but I actually adore my Hyundai Accent. It is a way better car than it has any right to be. That said, I'd go nuts if it were my only car.

And my first reaction to the news about 1-series owners was the same as yours - both surprise and dismay - but come to think of it, there are plenty of 3-series owners out there who are the same way, and for them, the 1-series is just a way to save some money, and maybe to get something novel i.e. a new model that wasn't there before. For that matter, there are plenty of 911 owners who buy the cars purely because they have the means, and I'd bet that a good many of them are oblivious to the significance of a rear-engine car.

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

BTW, I'm shocked that such a high percentag of 1-series drivers don't know that their cars are RWD. That says a lot about the people who are buying those cars. I thought a much higher percentage would have been enthusiasts.

Yeah so would I. But that just shows how small minority us car enthusiasts really are. And that the typical car buyer actually don't know much. Which is why ALL car manufacturers focus more on trying to reach a wider audience.

Just to mention some stupid things from the Germans.
-VW Golf R. They made it so ESP could not be turned off. (not sure if they have done anything now) That car have an "R" badge and should be the top of the line most hardcore Golf.
-Audi, Naming a car "Audi A1 Quattro" without putting the classic AWD quattro TorSen system in it that people would assume was there. (yeah, I know Quattro is just Audis way of saying AWD. Most would assume they get some top of the line stuff from a top of the line model with Quattro in the name)
-BMW. Latest gen base models (at least on 1 and 3-series) goes automatically into comfort mode when when turning DSC/DTC off.

Stuff that shows how right manufacturers are at times when doing stuff that would make enthusiasts cringe.
-Porsche. Making the Cayenne, Panamera etc..
-BMW making M-versions of the larger SUVs (sadly, probably much more profitable than making CSL versions of the smaller cars)

Im grateful Toyota have gotten to sense again. Hope other manufacturers will follow.