Why would more power ruin the car??

[xdavidx]

Originally Posted by DandoX

Can you please explain this sentence?

Answering this question is a trap, don't do it!

[m.box.design]

i think Toyota/Subaru hit a good mark for 100hp per liter. They can ship a product with reliability they can stand behind. Plus they've designed the platform to be mod-friendly and have left any decrease in reliability up to the owner.

[sly]

Originally Posted by Th3rdSun

I wish some of the people that have the car boosted would chime in with detailed first hand descriptions of how the balance differs,or maybe I missed those posts.

I went with a Cosworth supercharger using the smaller drive pulley and Cosworth 3" exhaust. This takes the car to somewhere around 300bhp. One of the first things I noticed was that the Prius tires would break traction rather easily. Turning at an intersection and being in second gear, I could break the rear end loose, sometimes on accident. I knew I would need more traction so I went with some Michelin Pilot Sport 4s tires. MUCH better. I feel that this alone brought most of the balance back to the car. I can still break the rear loose, but only when I want to. It's predictable on wet roads and still handles like a dream.

The suspension handles the increased power quite well. However the OEM clutch didn't. In 5 or 6th gear at mid rpms, I could get the clutch disc to slip just by hitting the gas pedal. So I swapped out the clutch for a Southbend stage 2 daily clutch. Perfect...

I feel that this car can easily handle more power. It doesn't feel unpredictable, nose heavy or any less of what it originally was. In fact, it feels all around a better car. The extra power makes the car feel even lighter and more nimble. I feel I am in control of it better. Every characteristic of the BRZ that I liked originally is now only better. It is easy to drive around town and is amazing going up mountain roads.

I had to make 2 major changes to restore the "balance". Tires and a clutch. I have made some other modifications as well, but these two were a necessity. Other mods include a lightweight flywheel, a rear shifter bushing, transmission bushing insert, shifter springs and soon to be added, rear differential bushing inserts. These add-ons have really helped make the car feel more solid and even more predictable. I have gained a minimal amount of noise in the cabin. But have gained even more in terms of putting the power to the ground... The car feels even stronger after adding the bushings. They weren't added because of a perceived lack of balance. But because I wanted to help the car be even more of what it was intended to be. An excellent rear wheel drive sports car.

I drove 30,000 miles before I went forced induction. The last 20,000 have been with the supercharger. I would never go back to stock from the setup I have now. Adding 100hp did not hurt the balance or the nature of the car in any way for me. Instead, it has made it even more of a drift car, more of a mountain road carving sports car. I don't feel I have to work the car as hard anymore. If I want to just sit back and enjoy driving it, it will do most of the work. But if I want to really hammer through the gears and take it to 9/10's through the mountains, it will still take all I can give it. This car craves more power. And if you do it properly, it will reward you with a truly remarkable driving experience.

[86MLR]

If you have the coin and inclination 270-300 hp is awesomeballs.

No it does not "wreck the purity of the car", because " wrecking the purity of the car by adding power" is an illogical statement for a little sports coupe.

Purity, LOL

[Th3rdSun]

Originally Posted by sly

I went with a Cosworth supercharger using the smaller drive pulley and Cosworth 3" exhaust. This takes the car to somewhere around 300bhp. One of the first things I noticed was that the Prius tires would break traction rather easily. Turning at an intersection and being in second gear, I could break the rear end loose, sometimes on accident. I knew I would need more traction so I went with some Michelin Pilot Sport 4s tires. MUCH better. I feel that this alone brought most of the balance back to the car. I can still break the rear loose, but only when I want to. It's predictable on wet roads and still handles like a dream.

The suspension handles the increased power quite well. However the OEM clutch didn't. In 5 or 6th gear at mid rpms, I could get the clutch disc to slip just by hitting the gas pedal. So I swapped out the clutch for a Southbend stage 2 daily clutch. Perfect...

I feel that this car can easily handle more power. It doesn't feel unpredictable, nose heavy or any less of what it originally was. In fact, it feels all around a better car. The extra power makes the car feel even lighter and more nimble. I feel I am in control of it better. Every characteristic of the BRZ that I liked originally is now only better. It is easy to drive around town and is amazing going up mountain roads.

I had to make 2 major changes to restore the "balance". Tires and a clutch. I have made some other modifications as well, but these two were a necessity. Other mods include a lightweight flywheel, a rear shifter bushing, transmission bushing insert, shifter springs and soon to be added, rear differential bushing inserts. These add-ons have really helped make the car feel more solid and even more predictable. I have gained a minimal amount of noise in the cabin. But have gained even more in terms of putting the power to the ground... The car feels even stronger after adding the bushings. They weren't added because of a perceived lack of balance. But because I wanted to help the car be even more of what it was intended to be. An excellent rear wheel drive sports car.

I drove 30,000 miles before I went forced induction. The last 20,000 have been with the supercharger. I would never go back to stock from the setup I have now. Adding 100hp did not hurt the balance or the nature of the car in any way for me. Instead, it has made it even more of a drift car, more of a mountain road carving sports car. I don't feel I have to work the car as hard anymore. If I want to just sit back and enjoy driving it, it will do most of the work. But if I want to really hammer through the gears and take it to 9/10's through the mountains, it will still take all I can give it. This car craves more power. And if you do it properly, it will reward you with a truly remarkable driving experience.

Thanks for your feedback. I feel like everyone that's against more power for this car should read this. Sounds like you went from a b-cup to a solid c-cup,instead of just going double d's,so to speak.

Driving around,I feel like this car is working harder than it probably needs to and going FI with not too crazy amount of boost just makes the car better than what it is. And you did exactly what I figured what needs to be done. Wider tires are an absolute must,and I didn't even think about the clutch.Do you think a short shifter would improve driving even more?

Anyway,I'll never understand why people are against more power,especially considering that even though the car is 200 hp,it's not putting that to the wheels. 186~ish to the wheels isn't very awe inspiring for this car,imo,but what the hell do I know? I just daily it every single day,for the past 4 1/2 years.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Th3rdSun

Thanks for your feedback. I feel like everyone that's against more power for this car should read this. Sounds like you went from a b-cup to a solid c-cup,instead of just going double d's,so to speak.

Driving around,I feel like this car is working harder than it probably needs to and going FI with not too crazy amount of boost just makes the car better than what it is. And you did exactly what I figured what needs to be done. Wider tires are an absolute must,and I didn't even think about the clutch.Do you think a short shifter would improve driving even more?

Anyway,I'll never understand why people are against more power,especially considering that even though the car is 200 hp,it's not putting that to the wheels. 186~ish to the wheels isn't very awe inspiring for this car,imo,but what the hell do I know? I just daily it every single day,for the past 4 1/2 years.

I think you will find that many are not against people wanting more power. I for one only put up a fuss when people claim they don't have enough power for normal day to day driving. The guys that think every single car on the road will "beat" them, can't go fast enough to merge with traffic, can't pass a Yugo on a straight, etc. The stock power is more than enough for normal driving and even at 186 at the wheels is well above the average for a car of this weight.
People that want more power is one thing. People that say it "needs" more power to be functional are another. This is especially true when many that state it is no good have little or no time behind the wheel.
In 180,000 miles and 5 years I have not once ran into a situation where I felt I "needed" more power but then again I have never tried to take on Mustangs at stop lights so what the hell do I know?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

If you have the coin and inclination 270-300 hp is awesomeballs.

No it does not "wreck the purity of the car", because " wrecking the purity of the car by adding power" is an illogical statement for a little sports coupe.

Purity, LOL

LOL Yep! The "purity"? The purity of what? An inexpensive sports coupe that was designed and built as a DD with the ability of occasional light track use? That is pure in some manner?
I know this is a forum of people that love this car but it is still just a car not some mystical all empowered creature that is "pure" in any way.

[YamahaR86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I think you will find that many are not against people wanting more power. I for one only put up a fuss when people claim they don't have enough power for normal day to day driving. The guys that think every single car on the road will "beat" them, can't go fast enough to merge with traffic, can't pass a Yugo on a straight, etc. The stock power is more than enough for normal driving and even at 186 at the wheels is well above the average for a car of this weight.
People that want more power is one thing. People that say it "needs" more power to be functional are another.

Pretty much my mindset. You have true slow cars like a smart car, prius, etc that can commute in the city fine. I always laugh when people say the twins are "slow" and omg torque dip!! But when driving, I typically shift at 3k RPM to save on gas.


This is why I waited 7 years to FI my car. I got used to it, enjoyed it stock and now want something a little different. The car feels the same under 3k RPM but when the turbo kicks in around 3.5k it pulls pretty hard (my first time turbo as well).


I still don't want to mess with the handling of the car yet which I think putting on bigger bars, coil-overs, etc will change that. I want to see what I want to improve on handling wise before I change, since I'm slowly getting into the autox/track scene. Don't want to throw bigger bars or lower it just because those are the mods that are "in" at the moment.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

LOL Yep! The "purity"? The purity of what? An inexpensive sports coupe that was designed and built as a DD with the ability of occasional light track use? That is pure in some manner?
I know this is a forum of people that love this car but it is still just a car not some mystical all empowered creature that is "pure" in any way.

Not our fault you boomers don't understand purity.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Not our fault you boomers don't understand purity.

We invented purity!

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I for one only put up a fuss when people claim they don't have enough power for normal day to day driving.

This, 100%. I loved my car while it was NA, I've driven plenty of cars that actually were slower (my Geo Metro, my stock NA Miata, My 1991 318i) and none of them at all aside the Geo felt inadequate for normal use, you just need to change your approach to situations.
The FRS is a rocket compared to the 318's M44 engine, and certainly had more straight line performance than the Miata.

Some people want more power because they have a goal ,or because they want MORE of something, whatever that is. I turbo'd my car because I like turbos, easy as that. I could've left the car bone stock and still loved it every day.

It's more than capable stock of any day to day driving needs. It even has air conditioning!

[Dave-ROR]

While I agree that the FRS has enough power for daily use I also can understand the desire for more power in daily driver.. just for the funs.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

While I agree that the FRS has enough power for daily use I also can understand the desire for more power in daily driver.. just for the funs.

That is always my point in these silly debates.
Not sure where people get to daily drive where they can use 350hp to it's best advantage though so that "fun" can be limited.

[YamahaR86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That is always my point in these silly debates.
Not sure where people get to daily drive where they can use 350hp to it's best advantage though so that "fun" can be limited.

Where I live it's hurricane central. So typically when one is coming our way we have to use the car's high horse power to beat all those slower cars to buy up all the supplies and gasoline.


You know what they say: today me, tomorrow also me.