2017 Toyota 86 - new name, styling, and more power

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well to start with they sold far more FRSs for the simple fact that they made more FRSs. We are not privy to either company's business plans but it seemed from the very start that Toyota was just that much more interested in selling their version. No doubt if Subaru had wanted to make more they would have but they just were not that interested. There are also about 5 Toyota/Scion dealers for every Subaru dealer in the US giving the FRS far more exposure to the casual buyer that just stumbled over the cars while shopping for something else or spotted it sitting on a lot. Would be a really bad business plan if every potential customer that stopped to look at an FRS was told "Oh ya and Subaru makes one as well but they have more options you should go look at them".

I can only speak for myself on the next point (but bet a pile of others agree) but I went FRS for two major things. First off, I wanted a bare bones car. I have no need for a bunch of doodads and gizmos so the fewer "convenience" or "luxury" items the better. The FRS came with the handful of things I do use and that was perfect for my needs. I also prefer cloth seats over fake leather for many reason. Secondly, although totally subjective I hated the look of the BRZ front bumper. It just did not flow. There was also the colour situation although that was not a deal breaker. If I was buying a 17 I would take the lowest level BRZ since they reworked the bumper to something I don't mind whereas the new 86 bumper makes me wake up screaming in the night.

Yeah I was pretty much on this same level of thinking with the pre facelift. But, since then the old BRZ has grown on me, and the new 86 is starting to grow on me too. I still think If I were to get a new one I'd likely pick up a new BRZ over the 86. I'd have to wait to see them both in person first though.

[Shinigami301]

Originally Posted by Oxyg3n

What is it that makes people want the 86/frs over the brz? I'm not trying to bash on the frs owners in any way, but I always saw the brz to be a better deal, but the frs outsells the brz by so much.

Is it because of the price difference or branding or looks? I do think that the refresh for both cars looks great =p

For some of us, a Subaru nameplate is a bridge too far. Regardless of who actually builds the thing, mind you.

My registration reads Toyota, so it's a Toyota.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well to start with they sold far more FRSs for the simple fact that they made more FRSs. We are not privy to either company's business plans but it seemed from the very start that Toyota was just that much more interested in selling their version. No doubt if Subaru had wanted to make more they would have but they just were not that interested.

Yep, this was pretty much mentioned from the beginning that the BRZ would be sold in much more limited numbers than the 86 worldwide (was not just a NA thing)

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I can only speak for myself on the next point (but bet a pile of others agree) but I went FRS for two major things. First off, I wanted a bare bones car. I have no need for a bunch of doodads and gizmos so the fewer "convenience" or "luxury" items the better. The FRS came with the handful of things I do use and that was perfect for my needs. I also prefer cloth seats over fake leather for many reason.

Consider me a piler-on. There was nothing the BRZ had that I wanted, and several things I definitely did not want, so why pay for them.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Secondly, although totally subjective I hated the look of the BRZ front bumper. It just did not flow.

Again, same here. I would not have purchased an 86 if it only came in the BRZ form just for this reason. Then pile on the other options I didn't want it wouldn't have made sense.

If, when it is time for me to buy a new car in a few years, the current (2017) looks are the same, I won't buy either. The "face lift" on the (now) Toyota 86 is an epic fail in my opinion, and the BRZ still has too much stuff I don't want, and still is ugly.

[Shinigami301]

Well, clearly, the "facelift" must work for SOMEONE. Maybe a Mirai designer was involved?

[Zaku]

I think over time people will come to like the new look of the 86, so few have seen it in person. And to be honest if you didn't like the last BRZ I'm not sure how you're gonna like this one because it's basically the same thing, the changes are nice to make it more in line with the rest of the subje line up. While the toyota is fishy like the rest of toyota ATM. I'm any case my example is people hated the predator face IS cars when it first came out. Now people don't care as much and they are all over the road. I'm sure it will be the same case as the 86.

For me considering a limited BRZ was only an option due to cost, it's gonna be a fight for me on the Premium BRZ or the 86; I can get over the petty front bumper easily if I feel good inside the car. Which I did in leaps and bounds compared to when I sat In the BRZ yellow. The front is the front, in the end I'll see it sometimes, but I'll be inside the car 95% I want the nice materials. Plastics is for the 90s. Still researching judgement till the Premium brz is confirmed so far I am for sure it's not going to be as nice. Toyota was really pushing the nicer inside.


Really comes down to the individual on this, I'm waiting to hear pricing to make decision at this point.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Shinigami301

Well, clearly, the "facelift" must work for SOMEONE. Maybe a Mirai designer was involved?

Or this guy?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Oxyg3n

What is it that makes people want the 86/frs over the brz? I'm not trying to bash on the frs owners in any way, but I always saw the brz to be a better deal, but the frs outsells the brz by so much.

Is it because of the price difference or branding or looks? I do think that the refresh for both cars looks great =p

Originally Posted by Zaku

Well it's hard to say for this generation the last one was different, most people liked the way it look it was new and it was advertised much more than the BRZ people didn't know BRZ came in two trims either and lots if people likes Scion Mono price. The BRZ is a better deal for people who can afford it, it's tough subject but lots of folks can't dish out monthly payments for a 29k car like a BRZ limited but they an justify the 25k that was the FRS. I. A way you can make the argument that the FRS is a good deal because price.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well to start with they sold far more FRSs for the simple fact that they made more FRSs. We are not privy to either company's business plans but it seemed from the very start that Toyota was just that much more interested in selling their version. No doubt if Subaru had wanted to make more they would have but they just were not that interested. There are also about 5 Toyota/Scion dealers for every Subaru dealer in the US giving the FRS far more exposure to the casual buyer that just stumbled over the cars while shopping for something else or spotted it sitting on a lot. Would be a really bad business plan if every potential customer that stopped to look at an FRS was told "Oh ya and Subaru makes one as well but they have more options you should go look at them".

I think there was an internal agreement between the companies that 1/3rd of production would have a Subaru badge and 2/3rd of production would have a Toyota/Scion badge. Even if customers liked the BRZ, there were not so many cars available. Maybe there were similar agreements on marketing promotion, more aggressive pricing etc. I think Subaru accepted this, because Toyota paid the entire cost of developing this car. Subaru didn't have the money to make such a development themselves.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by Shinigami301

Well, clearly, the "facelift" must work for SOMEONE. Maybe a Mirai designer was involved?

Iirc the last car the first 86 is designed by the older of the oldest Toyota designer, it was like his swan song for the company, he also designed the FT86 concept 1. The 2017 86 was designed by the younger guys that worked on the FT86 2 concept and I think they also did the SFR and possibly some lexus. Mirai is another person but he did the Prius.

The corolla, Camry, rav4 etc. And the FT1 those are designed here in the USA in California Calty design studio.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I've only met some of the designers not all of them.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I think there was an internal agreement between the companies that 1/3rd of production would have a Subaru badge and 2/3rd of production would have a Toyota/Scion badge. Even if customers liked the BRZ, there were not so many cars available. Maybe there were similar agreements on marketing promotion, more aggressive pricing etc. I think Subaru accepted this, because Toyota paid the entire cost of developing this car. Subaru didn't have the money to make such a development themselves.

I have heard this theory several times but never seen it supported. The number split is most likely more a simple matter of logistics then the two companies deciding to split the market. If Subaru really wanted a larger slice of the pie I am sure they would have got it. Doubt there were many Subbie dealers looking to have 30 BRZs on the lot so that they could match numbers against Toyota and it's much larger dealer base. Toyota needed the car to add a sports model to their line up but Subaru all ready specialize in that so they probably just wanted a lower volume to bring people in the door and try to sell them a WRX/STi so were not looking for the same volumes at any point.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Iirc the last car the first 86 is designed by the older of the oldest Toyota designer, it was like his swan song for the company, he also designed the FT86 concept 1. The 2017 86 was designed by the younger guys that worked on the FT86 2 concept and I think they also did the SFR and possibly some lexus. Mirai is another person but he did the Prius.

The corolla, Camry, rav4 etc. And the FT1 those are designed here in the USA in California Calty design studio.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I've only met some of the designers not all of them.

Can never disregard the possibility that the marketing folks probably had much less say in the first design than they did the facelift as well. Many a great car has declined rapidly when project control leans more toward marketing than engineering.

[FX86]

Originally Posted by Oxyg3n

What is it that makes people want the 86/frs over the brz? I'm not trying to bash on the frs owners in any way, but I always saw the brz to be a better deal, but the frs outsells the brz by so much.

Is it because of the price difference or branding or looks? I do think that the refresh for both cars looks great =p

it's because the FR-S is the poor man's BRZ

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by FX86

it's because the FR-S is the poor man's BRZ

You mean "more Race Car" right?

[Shinigami301]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Iirc the last car the first 86 is designed by the older of the oldest Toyota designer, it was like his swan song for the company, he also designed the FT86 concept 1. The 2017 86 was designed by the younger guys that worked on the FT86 2 concept and I think they also did the SFR and possibly some lexus. Mirai is another person but he did the Prius.

The corolla, Camry, rav4 etc. And the FT1 those are designed here in the USA in California Calty design studio.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I've only met some of the designers not all of them.

Proof that irony and sarcasm don't work on the internet. I was not serious, it was an attempt at a joke.

[FX86]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

You mean "more Race Car" right?

only if it comes with a spoiler