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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 04-13-2013, 12:54 AM   #155
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Prior to those, I had a Celica GT-S. Didn't like how I had to stay above 6krpm to enjoy the motor since that's not how I drive everyday. The Spyder's torquier, lower revving 1ZZ felt nicer to drive everyday than the Celica's 2ZZ which is why I didn't do the 2ZZ swap. S2K's engine is an amplified 2ZZ. Not wanting to commit the same 2 mistakes (1. vert and 2. peaky engine) twice, the S2K kept itself off my list. The BRZ combines driving thrills of the MR-S with solid unibody sleekness of the MkII MR2. Smoother, direct-injected torque at the low end is just icing.
So you're telling me that your 140hp 126tq 1.8L felt better than a 180hp 133tq 1.8L. And then you're telling me that a 240hp 151/162 tq 2.0/2.2 would feel slow? Sorry, not buying it. You need to try actually driving a s2k.

Former MR2 and corolla owner; I know exactly how all these engines feel. I also had a 3SGE BEAMS swapped into my MK2.

The s2k makes considerably more power than the FR-S. Dynos aren't everything; you forgot about mechanical gear multiplication.
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:25 AM   #156
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So you're telling me that your 140hp 126tq 1.8L felt better than a 180hp 133tq 1.8L. And then you're telling me that a 240hp 151/162 tq 2.0/2.2 would feel slow? Sorry, not buying it. You need to try actually driving a s2k.

Former MR2 and corolla owner; I know exactly how all these engines feel. I also had a 3SGE BEAMS swapped into my MK2.

The s2k makes considerably more power than the FR-S. Dynos aren't everything; you forgot about mechanical gear multiplication.
Yep, based on how smooth the power delivery felt from the low end and not on peak numbers from the top end. More power concentrated at the top end does not necessarily mean it feels better in the low end for everyday use. Also based on owning the MR-S and Celica at the same time for a year. I'd say switching between both cars back-to-back everyday for a year is enough to form a preference that spec sheets can't describe. You've obviously formed your own preferences. Not asking you to buy into mine - *I* bought into them - and they're ok to differ. I can also say I've given verts a chance and pretty much locked down my personal preference on them. No need to try and convince me. And not sure if it's obvious yet but I don't care much for more power so long as it's smooth and enough.

Last edited by switchlanez; 05-02-2013 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:33 PM   #157
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Thee FRS/BRZ isn't exactly a good example of smooth... the surge at 4.5k is more than that of VTEC...
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:41 PM   #158
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the torque curve of the fr-s/brz is pure bafoonery.
can the insane torque dip be tuned out? as in honda tuned some of their older engines to give a vtec kick, so im wondering if toyobaru did the same thing to give the impression of a torque kick?
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:11 AM   #159
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For reasonably priced cars, if I only needed two seats, I would take a Boxster, Cayman, Elise, Exige, or Vette before I'd take an S2000.

However, my kids use my FR-S backseat almost every day.

Now if I were perhaps twice as moneyed as I am and right now and wanted a two seater, there's the Ferraris. And for four seaters, there's the 911 Turbo and Evora.

The non-turbo 911s lie somewhere in a no-man's land.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:02 PM   #160
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For reasonably priced cars, if I only needed two seats, I would take a Boxster, Cayman, Elise, Exige, or Vette before I'd take an S2000.

However, my kids use my FR-S backseat almost every day.

Now if I were perhaps twice as moneyed as I am and right now and wanted a two seater, there's the Ferraris. And for four seaters, there's the 911 Turbo and Evora.

The non-turbo 911s lie somewhere in a no-man's land.
the issue is that for most of us, cost of ownership is something we think about.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:01 PM   #161
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I'll jump in here as I just traded my 2005 S2000 for an FR-S.

The torque dip on the FA20 is ridiculous, yes, but it's not instantaneous. The S2000 VTEC switch is.

Let's say you're waiting to make a left turn at a light in your shiny new AP2. The light turns green and you enjoy driving. A lot. You accelerate somewhat briskly, maybe a bit more than half throttle, and you sweep through the VTEC crossover point right about mid corner. The car ends up sideways in a hurry. That's a whole lot more likely in an S2000 than it is in an 86.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:26 PM   #162
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I'll jump in here as I just traded my 2005 S2000 for an FR-S.

The torque dip on the FA20 is ridiculous, yes, but it's not instantaneous. The S2000 VTEC switch is.

Let's say you're waiting to make a left turn at a light in your shiny new AP2. The light turns green and you enjoy driving. A lot. You accelerate somewhat briskly, maybe a bit more than half throttle, and you sweep through the VTEC crossover point right about mid corner. The car ends up sideways in a hurry. That's a whole lot more likely in an S2000 than it is in an 86.
+1. Happened to me except, i was accelerating less than half throttle, had cold tires, and the road was wet. I spun out on the street, crossed a concrete island and ended up on the other side of the road. Thank god no one was hurt, the car was okay and thank god it happened at 1 am.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:34 PM   #163
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Thee FRS/BRZ isn't exactly a good example of smooth... the surge at 4.5k is more than that of VTEC...
^Tell that to the 2 guys who posted above me. I was referring to everyday <4.5krpm driving where I prefer pull to be more even rather than climbing.

Another thing, people complain about the torque dip instead of being grateful for the 2 peaks gifted by D4-S. Toyobaru could've instead dropped in the 148hp FB20 (FA20 sans D4-S) from the Impreza so it wouldn't have the dip.

Last edited by switchlanez; 05-02-2013 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:03 PM   #164
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^Tell that to the 2 guys who posted above me. I was referring to everyday <4.5krpm driving where I prefer pull to be more even rather than climbing.

Another thing, people complain about the torque dip instead of being grateful for the 2 peaks gifted by D4-S. Toyobaru could've instead dropped in the 148hp FB20 (FA20 sans D4-S) from the Impreza so it wouldn't have the dip.
I like your philosophy of turning lemons into lemonade (i.e. being grateful for a torque dip).

Both cars are GREAT cars of our ages. Think of others who WANT to buy either of these two cars and can't afford them. I LOVE my s2000, it's sexy, very sleek, i love the interior quality and the honda reliability. I bought it over the FR-S because (1) i already have a new 5 door closed cabin sedan that i use a daily (2012 elantra) and as a people mover, (2) It was cheaper by 5K, (3) It has a known car history (i.e. possible recalls, car issues, etc) vs. the new fr-s, and (4) i love the long hood, the wide rear tires of the s2000, and the superior interior quality (related to the higher base price).

The FR-S is sexy on the outside, I love its sexy ASS but I hate the front of the car, I dont like how short the hood is, don't like the parts bin interior, crappy cloth seats, ridiculously high dash. What I DO like about the FR-S is how comfortable it can be once you have made the right adjustments to your seat.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:11 PM   #165
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Free S2000 ftw....

choice is obvious :P
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:56 PM   #166
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the torque curve of the fr-s/brz is pure bafoonery.
can the insane torque dip be tuned out? as in honda tuned some of their older engines to give a vtec kick, so im wondering if toyobaru did the same thing to give the impression of a torque kick?
Yep, header and a tune. torque dip gone.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:24 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by jsimon7777 View Post
For reasonably priced cars, if I only needed two seats, I would take a Boxster, Cayman, Elise, Exige, or Vette before I'd take an S2000.

However, my kids use my FR-S backseat almost every day.

Now if I were perhaps twice as moneyed as I am and right now and wanted a two seater, there's the Ferraris. And for four seaters, there's the 911 Turbo and Evora.

The non-turbo 911s lie somewhere in a no-man's land.
All of those cars you mentioned are great, but cost more up front than an S2000 and/or cost a lot more to maintain. Also, S2000 is arguably just as fun to drive, if not more so, than all except maybe the Elise and Exige.

P.S. This is coming from a new S2000 owner, so take my opinions as you will.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:23 PM   #168
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All of those cars you mentioned are great, but cost more up front than an S2000 and/or cost a lot more to maintain. Also, S2000 is arguably just as fun to drive, if not more so, than all except maybe the Elise and Exige.

P.S. This is coming from a new S2000 owner, so take my opinions as you will.
Well, the Elise isn't a killer on maintenance. If it came down to that, I'd just get the FR-S then. New reliability since S2000s are either old, expensive, or high-mileage. Plus a lot more crash worthiness. I'm not a huge S2000 fan, though I love how easy they are to turbo to high power. Perhaps the one I drove was just a lemon.
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