Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am glad that somebody get's it!
This is all that I have maintained all along! Unfortunately those regulatory requirements are indeed Toyota/Subaru's problem. Not so much as a "want" to advertise but a MUST meet situation. They do what they can to give the public what they want and still meet the requirements they are required to if they wish to export the vehicles.


The guys that tune or mod do not have their hands tied by the regulations and do pretty much as they please. End of story and a non debatable FACT.

And children will tell you we want more power or we won't buy 🙄


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by darthpnoy1984

And children will tell you we want more power or we won't buy ��


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Meh. If they want more power they can buy something else or put their money where their mouth is and give it more power. Pretty easy to do.

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Meh. If they want more power they can buy something else or put their money where their mouth is and give it more power. Pretty easy to do.

As they say power, cheap, reliability you can pick two out of three.


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[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Meh. If they want more power they can buy something else or put their money where their mouth is and give it more power. Pretty easy to do.

Exactly! Spending $6K on a supercharger puts our twins in the same power-to-weight-ratio category of much more expensive sports cars. I have no reliability concerns with professional installation and proper maintenance.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I agree with you and I would love a mustang GT in auto as my DD, except I am getting about 33-34 mpg with my BRZ and I drive about 79 a day. The mustang GT would be no where close to that mpg. I think the BRZ is just a blast to drive, especially in the turns and it's so light and nimble. I'll get a mustang GT one day when mpg does not matter to me.

I would only replace my FR-S with a Porsche 911. Mustang GT (or any other pony) is not for me. Actually, I checked Camaro and I could have bought a GT for the price of FR-S Monogram edition. No regrets ...

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by mrg666

I would only replace my FR-S with a Porsche 911. Mustang GT (or any other pony) is not for me. Actually, I checked Camaro and I could have bought a GT for the price of FR-S Monogram edition. No regrets ...

You found a Camaro GT, thats cool..those are pretty hard to find.

Almost as hard to find as Mustang SS.

Just kidding with ya, i knew what you meant. I figured this thread could use
a joke at this point and lighten the mood.

[Tcoat]

Hi Why! You get this far yet?

Edit: Yep there you are. You made it through the whole thing. Impressive.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Hi Why! You get this far yet?

I don't even need to say anything and my viewpoints are still expressed.

[thill]

I think the author of the article has some valid points but he spends way too much time on the negative and not nearly enough on the positive. As others have pointed out the original design goals of the car were not centered around power. Right or wrong, this is where the car is today and, IMHO, most of these auto mags spend way too much time on specs and not enough time talking about the driving dynamics, seating position, etc.

Sold my BRZ years ago, but power was not even close to the main reason. I think Subaru/Toyota should focus their time/resources/ on the next variant of the platform and give it additional power without sacrificing the weight, handling, etc. But I would never expect 300+hp/tq. I think a small displacement twin scroll (like Ford uses on the Fiesta) that gives it a little more horsepower but better torque would be great.

You will never satisfy everyone and if people just care about straight-line speed and max horsepower then buy a different car.

One thing. The performance package upgrade for these cars should include higher performance tires like Michelin Super Sports.

[totopo]

Originally Posted by thill

I think the author of the article has some valid points but he spends way too much time on the negative and not nearly enough on the positive. As others have pointed out the original design goals of the car were not centered around power. Right or wrong, this is where the car is today and, IMHO, most of these auto mags spend way too much time on specs and not enough time talking about the driving dynamics, seating position, etc.

Sold my BRZ years ago, but power was not even close to the main reason. I think Subaru/Toyota should focus their time/resources/ on the next variant of the platform and give it additional power without sacrificing the weight, handling, etc. But I would never expect 300+hp/tq. I think a small displacement twin scroll (like Ford uses on the Fiesta) that gives it a little more horsepower but better torque would be great.

You will never satisfy everyone and if people just care about straight-line speed and max horsepower then buy a different car.

One thing. The performance package upgrade for these cars should include higher performance tires like Michelin Super Sports.

The problem is weight. For the original design goals, the purpose was to have a fun, lightweight, tossable car. For weight, torque is the enemy. So I don't understand why everyone wants turbo. Turbo boost torque way more than HP. A high revving NA is better for a lightweight OEM car. High torque means heavier drivetrain components, and beefier components all around including suspension components, then brakes, wheels, tires, etc.

As an example, the FiST vs 86

86
hp:205
tq:158
weight: 2760
length:166.7
width:69.9
wheelbase:101.2
track:59.8/60.6

FiST
hp:197
tq:202
weight:2720
length:160.1
width:67.8
wheelbase:98.0
track:57.7/57

So even though the FiST is FWD, which saves a ton of weight compared to the 86, and is a ton smaller, it ends up at a similar weight.

I think for the sports car category, it's mostly, weight, power, money. choose 2.

Also, for whatever reason, the original design criteria for the 86 included gas mileage. Probably because trying to entice first time carbuyers who use it as a daily. I don't know why everyone knocks the oem tires. They are pretty well suited. They improve mileage, have good breakaway characteristics making them fun to drive, good longevity, and the are as fast as some MP tires on the track.

[86Boyz]

When people complain about this car being slow. I say to them have you tried turning car instead of trying to floor in a straight line racing a Honda Accord V6 from a stop light?

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by 86Boyz

When people complain about this car being slow. I say to them have you tried turning car instead of trying to floor in a straight line racing a Honda Accord V6 from a stop light?

People want it all (Lightweight, fast, good looking, reliable)
















For less than 35k.

[totopo]

Originally Posted by 86Boyz

When people complain about this car being slow. I say to them have you tried turning car instead of trying to floor in a straight line racing a Honda Accord V6 from a stop light?

Ehh, it's not that fast in a corner either. It is good in transitions because of low cog and weight, but absolute max cornering grip isn't anything to write home about. The heavy, fat-tired cars like the 370z, camaro, mustang and the cars with real suspension like the miata and s2k can generate more grip.

It's more about fun than fast. I don't understand why everyone focuses on "fast" with the 86.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by totopo

Also, for whatever reason, the original design criteria for the 86 included gas mileage. Probably because trying to entice first time carbuyers who use it as a daily. I don't know why everyone knocks the oem tires. They are pretty well suited. They improve mileage, have good breakaway characteristics making them fun to drive, good longevity, and the are as fast as some MP tires on the track.

The mileage thing is not a marketing ploy or way to entice people it is a very strict requirement in much of the car's markets. These lower MPG/emissions standards are mandatory and not negotiable. Almost every market this car is sold in has something similar. You of all people (edit: wrong Po I thought at first you were somebody else) should be aware of the surcharges most European countries place on the higher displacement and less efficient vehicles. The car companies have a bit of wiggle room since the requirements are fleet average numbers not per model numbers. This allows companies such as Subaru to sell models such as the STi that are above or close to the requirements by having ones such as the BRZ that are well below. Toyota may push the whole "Look at us we are saving the world with the Prius" thing when the fact may be they should be saying "Look the Prius gave use enough mileage and emissions credits we can still build Tundras". As I have said about 100 times in this thread the manufacturers are bound by thousands of requirements and have to play a game of juggling in a world wide market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpor...e_Fuel_Economy
http://www.unep.org/transport/gfei/a...pe/cs_eu_0.asp