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Old 06-03-2013, 12:00 AM   #281
Blue86
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Originally Posted by bakerr6 View Post
A couple things to keep in mind here. Most track surfaces are comparable to normal roads. There is nowhere in the manual that says you must maintain a speed and driving characteristic below X number in order to comply with warranty standards.

Regardless if he drives it hard on the street or on the track should be a nil point.
fair point and in germany you could run it flat out on an autobahn
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:00 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge View Post
From my experience, driving mountain roads spiritedly can cause more stress on drivetrain components and wear items that tracking can - thats a public road and street use, no racing. What if something happened in that context? If the car fails, do I have warranty coverage there?
yep you would have so better tow it off the track and onto a mountain road

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Old 06-03-2013, 12:10 AM   #283
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From my experience, driving mountain roads spiritedly can cause more stress on drivetrain components and wear items that tracking can - thats a public road and street use, no racing. What if something happened in that context? If the car fails, do I have warranty coverage there?
That's if you're drifting downhill. I you keep the car under 5500rpm, I don't see how that can stress the drive-train too much.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:27 AM   #284
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I keep starting posts to this thread, then deleting them. You guys are having so much fun that I hate to lie down in front of your parade. However, just in terms of the so-called real world (and not the argumentative world of "advertising copy vs. warranty wording"):

1) It's a road car. The track is not the road.

2) You're pissed because you feel you're entitled to a second free engine replacement? How much goodwill does any OEM owe you?

3) It's the first model year. Did anyone older than twelve expect that there would be no problems?

I hope the OP gets everything he wants. I hope everyone here gets everything they want. But I don't see that the OP is in a really strong position to argue on this one.

:happy0180:



1- The track will speed up the abuse of the road yes. In other words if engines are failing at 4k-20k miles when being tracked imagine whats in store for your DD at 50-100k miles, specially when having manufacturers denying there is a problem when there clearly is one. MX-5 is a road car and they hold up good at the track, a good friend of mine owns a race school and so far only one car has had an engine failure and it was covered since the car was stock.

2-He is entitled if there is a problem and the manufacturer is not willing to address it. So by not making a recall on shitty injector seals his engine failed, i dont care if it was at the track or in the street a bad call by the manufacturer caused this failure period. If toyota did not recall the unintended acceleration on some of their vehicles would you say its ok for a guy that died or got hurt at the track because his car did not stop when he needed it to not get any sort of compensation. Because even though the manufacturer denied a failure that they knew was going on he was tracking the car so it does not count.

3-There are problems on every car but at least they are solved. E46 m3's had a recall for earlier model rod bearing failures. I have a couple of buddies with E46 track cars that got it recalled and covered under BMW.
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:48 AM   #285
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A quick heads up for everybody. This car has issues with detonation with the factory tune. I'm not talking about crappy Cali gas, but the ECU calibration guys at Subaru screwed up here.

This failed engine is a direct result of cascading failures due to a bad tune. Detonation is not normal and anyone who says so, ought to be doing something else for a living.

Detonation over time will damage engine internals. This is a given. The first component to fail on this engine with the detonating tune is the nylon collar on the direct injector tip. When that insulator cracks and breaks off due to detonation, there is nothing left to protect the injector seal from combustion gasses and the seal fails as a result. Then, the failed seal leaks, causing more detonation and misfires until the engine throws in the towel (or a rod).

This car detonates on the 2-3, 3-4, 4-5, 5-6 shifts when driving the car hard. By hard, I mean WOT and shifting with speed and authority. I have attached a log that shows detonation happening at exactly the shift points (you can see the engine speed rising to redline and the shifts). On the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts I logged, there was detonation resulting from too much timing advance which can also be seen in the log. Keep in mind that this is the factory tune and all I did was log what it does.

I have also attached a view of the factory Transient Ignition Retard Table that shows that it is not pulling jack for timing in the high rpm range. It does pull timing at low rpm and low load, but keeps the timing too far advanced up top. This is due to the fact that the base timing map is advanced a lot in the low load range at high rpm (which the engine sees when you close the throttle for your shift).

Apparently, there is a new flash from Toyota that fixes the tune...sadly, the tune is what ultimately caused the engine failures here people. Subaru needs to step up and fix their mistake.

In closing, while not everyone drives their FRS/BRZ like a madman, driving this car hard will eventually kill the engine with the stock tune. Tracking the car only accelerates the inevitable death of the engine since you are shifting like this much more often.
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Last edited by Sithspawn; 06-03-2013 at 02:17 AM. Reason: edited for accuracy
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:52 AM   #286
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Thanks for that post. Very enlightening.

Toyota and Subaru... We know you are here reading this. Please take note and get your a$$ in gear!
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:00 AM   #287
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So if I got an ecu tek tune am I ok?
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:02 AM   #288
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Depends on if your tuner has the updated flash. I don't think it has been released in the US yet but some tuners have it.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:03 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Sithspawn View Post
A quick heads up for everybody. This car has issues with detonation with the factory tune. I'm not talking about crappy Cali gas, but the ECU calibration guys at Subaru screwed up here.

This failed engine is a direct result of cascading failures due to a bad tune. Detonation is not normal and anyone who says so, ought to be doing something else for a living.

Detonation over time will damage engine internals. This is a given. The first component to fail on this engine with the detonating tune is the ceramic insulator on the direct injector tip. When that insulator cracks and breaks off due to detonation, there is nothing left to protect the injector seal from combustion gasses and the seal fails as a result. Then, the failed seal leaks, causing more detonation and misfires until the engine throws in the towel (or a rod).

This car detonates on the 2-3, 3-4, 4-5, 5-6 shifts when driving the car hard. By hard, I mean WOT and shifting with speed and authority. I have attached a log that shows detonation happening at exactly the shift points (you can see the engine speed rising to redline and the shifts). On the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts I logged, there was detonation resulting from too much timing advance which can also be seen in the log. Keep in mind that this is the factory tune and all I did was log what it does.

I have also attached a view of the factory Transient Ignition Retard Table that shows that it is not pulling jack for timing in the high rpm range. It does pull timing at low rpm and low load, but keeps the timing too far advanced up top. This is due to the fact that the base timing map is advanced a lot in the low load range at high rpm (which the engine sees when you close the throttle for your shift).

Apparently, there is a new flash from Toyota that fixes the tune...sadly, the tune is what ultimately caused the engine failures here people. Subaru needs to step up and fix their mistake.

In closing, while not everyone drives their FRS/BRZ like a madman, driving this car hard will eventually kill the engine with the stock tune. Tracking the car only accelerates the inevitable death of the engine since you are shifting like this much more often.
Who else can confirm/duplicate this data?
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:04 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by clayrush View Post
So if I got an ecu tek tune am I ok?
Not necessarily. If the tuner is not aware of the isse and doesn't correct it, then you would still have the stock Transient Ignition Retard Map and you'd still have detonation on shifts. Period. The ecutek or brzedit software doesn't fix the issue: the tuner must fix it.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:07 AM   #291
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I want to inspect my injectors. But I do have signs of damage. I am worried now that I have a ecutek flash toyota will blame that.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:10 AM   #292
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You can always flash back to stock when. Oh take your car to the dealer.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:11 AM   #293
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Also interested to see if these results can be replicated.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:18 AM   #294
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Who else can confirm/duplicate this data?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wootwoot View Post
Also interested to see if these results can be replicated.
I got the inspiration to do a log specifically for this purpose as a result of this post here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=65

If anything, my log simply validates what Toyota already knows.
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