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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 10-18-2018, 02:07 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by nico_rsx View Post
For my information, can you explain a bit more why it was no good? Didn't you see any temperature difference at all?
It can never cool the oil below your coolant temps (so on track, 200f maybe? and it will never get even close to that). In a way, that style of cooler is really more of an "oil warmer" for cold-weather climates, as it gets your oil up to temperature faster. But there's no way it can cool enough for serious track use.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:01 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by kch View Post
It can never cool the oil below your coolant temps (so on track, 200f maybe? and it will never get even close to that). In a way, that style of cooler is really more of an "oil warmer" for cold-weather climates, as it gets your oil up to temperature faster. But there's no way it can cool enough for serious track use.
Properly designed and sized, a water-to-oil cooler is considerably more efficient than an air-to-oil cooler. So, while the Forester version may not be suitable, I wouldn't toss out all water-to-oil coolers.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:49 PM   #129
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Properly designed and sized, a water-to-oil cooler is considerably more efficient than an air-to-oil cooler. So, while the Forester version may not be suitable, I wouldn't toss out all water-to-oil coolers.
Examples?
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:59 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by kch View Post
It can never cool the oil below your coolant temps (so on track, 200f maybe? and it will never get even close to that). In a way, that style of cooler is really more of an "oil warmer" for cold-weather climates, as it gets your oil up to temperature faster. But there's no way it can cool enough for serious track use.
Why would you expect your oil to be below water temps? 200F is not to be expected with any cooler.

I've read that the stand alone oil cooler is "better" but haven't seen any evidence as to why.

I've also read people praising the JR combo, so, yeah...
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:33 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by new2subaru View Post
Why would you expect your oil to be below water temps? 200F is not to be expected with any cooler.

I've read that the stand alone oil cooler is "better" but haven't seen any evidence as to why.

I've also read people praising the JR combo, so, yeah...
Okay, here goes some theory-craft based on thermodynamics:

Cooling efficiency depends on a couple of factors and the biggies are 1. surface area and 2. temperature differences between the hot and cold places.

Both the coolant and the oil share responsibility for cooling the engine, so with the heat exchanger you're dumping the cooling responsibility of the oil into the coolant and if you don't increase the efficiency of your radiator (make it bigger, add more fins, etc) you'll just max out the radiator faster under heavy load. Water/coolant can retain lots of heat but that's a double edged sword, and once you've started to boil your coolant you're going to have a bad day. If you go with the heat exchanger, you'll need to upgrade your radiator and fans to see any significant benefits at the track.

With an air to oil OC, you've added extra surface area to cool stuff off and since the oil is hotter than the coolant, more heat is shed with the same radiator area (one of the reasons why OC's are smaller than radiators). The oil also retains less heat than water/coolant and changes temperature faster (lower specific heat and density). Adding a "normal" oil cooler is all you have to do to get the desired benefits.

Both strategies can be viable as long as you are aware of your needs and the limitations of whichever you choose. If you don't want or need to upgrade your radiator, the air to oil coolers are the way to go; however, if you are in the process of replacing or upgrading your radiator anyway you could get away with a Forester type heat exchanger (the heat exchangers also help heat cold oil up to operating temps faster, whereas the other type will increase the warm up times).
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:00 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new2subaru View Post
Why would you expect your oil to be below water temps? 200F is not to be expected with any cooler.

I've read that the stand alone oil cooler is "better" but haven't seen any evidence as to why.

I've also read people praising the JR combo, so, yeah...



I have the JR Dual-Rad, and it's awesome. But I think you're misunderstanding how it works. It is not an oil to water cooler in the traditional sense.


Also, important to note that the oil temp reading using the OEM sensor is /after/ the cooler, not before the cooler, because the cooler runs off a sandwich plate. So, yeah, it's totally possible to see 200F on track with an oil cooler, but that is it's temp after cooling, it's peak temp (pre-cooling) is probably 50-80F higher than that.
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:00 AM   #133
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Examples?
A large Laminova, mounted in a location of your choosing.
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:01 PM   #134
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A large Laminova, mounted in a location of your choosing.

Just checked those out. They have a combined one that uses one coolant feed to handle two separate oil cooler circuits so you can run a single unit in an out of the way place and cool engine oil and transmission fluid. That's /highly/ interesting to me, although I think I've already solved my cooling problems.
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:19 PM   #135
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Just checked those out. They have a combined one that uses one coolant feed to handle two separate oil cooler circuits so you can run a single unit in an out of the way place and cool engine oil and transmission fluid. That's /highly/ interesting to me, although I think I've already solved my cooling problems.
It's something I've considered to cool my transmission as well, but would rather do an air cooler.
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Old 10-19-2018, 01:21 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by fatoni View Post
Examples?

The Jackson Racing combo cooler is actually a water to oil cooler, and seems to be satisfying those who have it. The part that cool the oil has no fins or aiflow and is only water cooled.
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:28 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by new2subaru View Post
Why would you expect your oil to be below water temps? 200F is not to be expected with any cooler.
stu already pretty much covered it, but i was mostly referring to the delta between oil temp and coolant temp.

and edit: for DD, my air-to-oil OC keeps things around 180 in the summer, and dangerously low in the winter. i usually tie some cardboard over the rad to keep things warmer.
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:24 PM   #138
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I'm 80% sure I'm going to FRS. I kind of want a CLEAN project car anyway. Back in college and shortly after, I was always working on some old POS (didn't help I was in the rust belt either) and lost my interest in jacking with cars. I enjoy working on my grand sport
I'm kind of over breaking bolts, dealing with seized stuff and stripping crap on 20 year old cars in my garage.
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If you have time, please read Car and Driver in their October issue. Go to page 47 and read the story about their lightening lap. It sums it all. !
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...tning-lap-2018
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:24 PM   #139
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Funny to think of GM ownership being so costly.
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Old 10-20-2018, 02:32 PM   #140
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Examples?
Every water cooled Porsche as far as I know. You don't see them cooking their oil at the track!

The physics works in favor of water-to-oil coolers due to the way higher density of water compared to air.
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