FR-S/BRZ vs. Genesis Coupe

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by DSV-UltraGL

i mentioned that pricing will blur things, but wasn't that the case for the base Gencoupe and the MX-5? nothing much happend there.

about the FWD; well with the mindset throughout this thread it could sound ignorant. But what i meant is that FWD's can have all the power they want, but cars like the gencoupe and to much more extent the FT86 are made for RWD FUN. Hence, me saying arguing a FWD is off-point in this context.

i think the miata and gen coupe have just enough of a difference to keep that from being a reasonable comparison. im thinking that the 2 seater convertible compared to a larger 2+2 hardtop is just enough to not get cross shopped often enough to be recognized. i think the frs walks that line but this is still all just opinion.

as far as fwd goes i dont think the gen coupe is nearly as fun as an itr or even the mazdaspeed protege. the frs might be but i still doubt it...at least until i see one in real life

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think the miata and gen coupe have just enough of a difference to keep that from being a reasonable comparison. im thinking that the 2 seater convertible compared to a larger 2+2 hardtop is just enough to not get cross shopped often enough to be recognized. i think the frs walks that line but this is still all just opinion.

as far as fwd goes i dont think the gen coupe is nearly as fun as an itr or even the mazdaspeed protege. the frs might be but i still doubt it...at least until i see one in real life

That's because your preference is lightweight cars.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by DSV-UltraGL

The FT86 excels the MX-5 in every possible way i look at it

The MX-5 has less mass and a shorter wheelbase (advantageous for low speed dynamics).

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

That's because your preference is lightweight cars.

There are plenty of heavier cars that provide better bang for your buck, so anyone who doesn't prioritize low mass probably shouldn't get an FT86.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

That's because your preference is lightweight cars.

while my preference is lightweight cars, it isnt the reason i said that. in fact the msp is heavier than the frs.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by DSV-UltraGL

about the FWD; well with the mindset throughout this thread it could sound ignorant. But what i meant is that FWD's can have all the power they want, but cars like the gencoupe and to much more extent the FT86 are made for RWD FUN. Hence, me saying arguing a FWD is off-point in this context.

If you are meaning getting sideways and what not...fine. But as I've mentioned in the past....Fun for me in my current FWD, is passing AWD and RWD's at the track and having them look at me like "WTF just happened". Now THAT is fun... Being Fwd AND being a Scion, it's an even bigger WTF face. I've converted a lot of believers at the track because of it.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Deslock

The MX-5 has less mass and a shorter wheelbase (advantageous for low speed dynamics).


There are plenty of heavier cars that provide better bang for your buck, so anyone who doesn't prioritize low mass probably shouldn't get an FT86.

In the RWD sport coupe arena the Genesis coupe and the Mustang are the only bang for bucks I see. The Camaro and the Challenger is much heavier and way more pricier with the V8 engine and options. The RX8 is underpowered and on its way out, plus I have never heard anyone call it a bang for the buck anyways. The MX5 and the FRS/BRZ is also not a bang for buck especially in America since the only big thing they offer is handling. The GC R-Spec is $26,750 with 310hp/266tq, cw 3430 lbs, 19'' wheels with Bridgestone summer tires, BREMBO 4 pot brakes on all sides, Torsen LSD, Sport suspension, Leather/Cloth 2 tone seats and aluminum pedals. Also the longest damn warranty for a Sports coupe ever 10y/100k. That is a lot of car for your money. If you come up with a another RWD coupe with similar power and features it will be a lot more than that car so I don't know what the hell you are talking about.


And the other thing I own a lightweight vehicle but I don't go around prioritizing only weight for a fun to drive car. Sure I wouldn't go over 3500+ lbs but I have driven cars way more fun than my RSX that weigh more.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The MX5 and the FRS/BRZ is also not a bang for buck especially in America since the only big thing they offer is handling.

They offer more than just handling. The rest of your post underscores my point.

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I own a lightweight vehicle but I don't go around prioritizing only weight for a fun to drive car.

Who is doing that with the FT?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Deslock

They offer more than just handling. The rest of your post underscores my point.



Who is doing that with the FT?

What else does a MX5 really offers besides handling? Every time I see a review all I see is the word HANDLING being the only good thing about that car. 29 mpg HWY in a 2500 lb car? That's funny as hell when a V6 stang, 3400 lbs can manage the same. 2 seats? Practical much? And a tiny trunk? What am I missing here?


The majority of this site. Anything over 2800 lbs is not sporty to majority around here and you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

What else does a MX5 really offers besides handling? Every time I see a review all I see is the word HANDLING being the only good thing about that car. 29 mpg HWY in a 2500 lb car? That's funny as hell when a V6 stang, 3400 lbs can manage the same. 2 seats? Practical much? And a tiny trunk? What am I missing here?


The majority of this site. Anything over 2800 lbs is not sporty to majority around here and you know exactly what I'm talking about.

i think things like cheap and convertible and reliable are things the car has going for it. that plus size and quality of the aftermarket have to count for something. on top of all that, the car has the highest fun per dollar ratio by such a significant margin that i dont think it needs to do much of anything else

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think things like cheap and convertible and reliable are things the car has going for it. that plus size and quality of the aftermarket have to count for something. on top of all that, the car has the highest fun per dollar ratio by such a significant margin that i dont think it needs to do much of anything else

I wouldn't call the Mx5 cheap for what you get. It starts at 24k and can max out at 29-30k. If the price started at 20k I could understand.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I wouldn't call the Mx5 cheap for what you get. It starts at 24k and can max out at 29-30k. If the price started at 20k I could understand.

you can get them for less than that quite frequently but when i say cheap im also considering the cost of operation since when i buy cars i like to use them and stuff. if you can name a cheaper convertible, or a cheaper sports car or a cheaper rwd car under 2500 lbs let alone all of those things in one im all ears

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you can get them for less than that quite frequently but when i say cheap im also considering the cost of operation since when i buy cars i like to use them and stuff. if you can name a cheaper convertible, or a cheaper sports car or a cheaper rwd car under 2500 lbs let alone all of those things in one im all ears

You got me here. I don't dislike what it stands for so I know why people love it.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

What else does a MX5 really offers besides handling?

Since so many here equate handling with grip, it's worth mentioning some non-grip aspects:

- Neutral
- Balanced
- Tossable
- Predictable
- Forgiving
- RWD

In the non-handling column, the MX5 offers:

- RWD (listed again since it also has non-handling implications)
- Great steering feedback
- Superb road feel
- Responsive throttle
- Eagerness to rev
- Excellent brakes
- Excellent shifter
- Ride not too stiff for daily driver
- Lots of mods available

And in the non-driving dynamics column:

- Quick and easy-to-use top (self-booting as of NC)
- Comfortable seats
- Decent trunk (for a small roadster)
- Reasonable MSRP
- Excellent OTD price
- Reliable
- EPA ratings = meh, but real world MPG = good
- Huge grassroots community

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The majority of this site. Anything over 2800 lbs is not sporty to majority around here and you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Low weight is a critical attribute for a momentum car, but is not not only attribute. Also important are low CoG, low yaw moment, even weight distribution, stiff chassis, properly tuned suspension (though the MX5's stock suspension is really only OK), etc.

So again, who is prioritizing only weight for a fun to drive car?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Since so many here equate handling with grip, it's worth mentioning some non-grip aspects:

- Neutral
- Balanced
- Tossable
- Predictable
- Forgiving
- RWD

In the non-handling column, the MX5 offers:

- RWD (listed again since it also has non-handling implications)
- Great steering feedback
- Superb road feel
- Responsive throttle
- Eagerness to rev
- Excellent brakes
- Excellent shifter
- Ride not too stiff for daily driver
- Lots of mods available

And in the non-driving dynamics column:

- Quick and easy-to-use top (self-booting as of NC)
- Comfortable seats
- Decent trunk (for a small roadster)
- Reasonable MSRP
- Excellent OTD price
- Reliable
- EPA ratings = meh, but real world MPG = good
- Huge grassroots community

Low weight is a critical attribute for a momentum car, but is not not only attribute. Also important are low CoG, low yaw moment, even weight distribution, stiff chassis, properly tuned suspension (though the MX5's stock suspension is really only OK), etc.

So again, who is prioritizing only weight for a fun to drive car?

First off this car(FRS) has a 53/47 balance in which a lot of other RWD vehicles have beaten or come close to. The Mx5 engine doesn't have a lower CoG yet it still has great handling so a flat engine seems to be a complete waste of time it seems. No one has mention this car being better than a Mx5 only saying it's a close match. In this day and age most sport coupes have stiff chassis already like when Hyundai made their coupe 25% more rigid than a e46 M3. Hell even my RSX is very stiff already. And about people only prioritizing weight? You must have missed a few threads where people were saying if the FRS is over 2800 lbs they could care less how it handles and they won't buy it. You might not be one of them but they clearly exist on this site.