Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1

[Whitigir]

Every one drive manual trans differently. That is what interesting about the MT.

You create your own driving experiences that you feel good, and smile every time you drive. You just dont copy other people styles.

There are only a few things that you should pay attentions too.

1/ if you are jerking your vehicle, you are doing it wrong

2/ if your engine is jerking, you are doing it wrong (down shift agressively without rev match)

I rev match very simple, i dont do the stabbing, jabbing the pedals. I simply delay my right foot when neutralizing my clutch and down shift. Every car is different, it usually takes me a while to know what delay time frame is good for my car transmission at what speed, gear.

Though i have a friend who love that stabbing, jabbing the pedals just like the guy in the second video. I always laugh when he do those stuff, look like he was making love to his car....

Have to say though, jabbing the pedals are only needed in some instances, not all the time, but still, it is one driving style one can enjoy.

[tinma]

Hmm... Turns out I ride my clutch like a mother f***er when backing into my driveway lol...

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by tinma

Hmm... Turns out I ride my clutch like a mother f***er when backing into my driveway lol...

Reverse is probably the gear in which I burn the clutch the most.

[brzr]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Reverse is probably the gear in which I burn the clutch the most.

Same here

[extrashaky]

Since I'm new to the board, I'm playing a bit of catch-up here. Forgive me for going back to a few old posts and being long-winded...

Originally Posted by Whitigir

By doing engine Brake, you put too much Torque Tensions onto the transmission through the gears...which it was never an intentional engineering.

I'd like to point out that the owner's manual for this car specifically instructs the driver to downshift and use engine braking. I don't think Subaru would have put that in there if the car were not designed for it. This kind of driving is expected, especially in a performance vehicle, and the vehicle is designed with it in mind. You're not generally going to hurt your car by downshifting.

Originally Posted by calidus

I was wonder if I could get some general advice when it comes to driving a manual when you get in shitty situations? Things like trying to avoid accidents and sliding on ice.

The problem with "general advice" on driving in adverse conditions is that all the good advice in the world goes right out the window when you have to apply it in microseconds because your tires just cut loose and you're headed for a guard rail.

The best advice is to prepare. Have the right tires and avoid the situations where you might get in trouble when possible.

But since that's not always possible, if you're really worried about it, you ought to consider taking one of the driving courses that uses a skid car.



A skid car has four extra caster wheels mounted to it that can rotate any direction. Your driving instructor (sitting in the passenger seat next to you) can press a button that engages those wheels so that the car lifts up off its regular wheels for a moment, losing traction and putting you into an uncontrolled skid. Then its your job to get the car back under control. Some of these courses use dry pavement, some wet the pavement down for even more fun, and I believe there are a few out there that have ice courses available.

What does this do for you? It takes all this advice you read and listen to and turns it into motor memory, so that it becomes an immediate reaction to the situation rather than some cerebral exercise that you don't have time for when the guard rail is rapidly growing in your windscreen. And it does it in a completely safe environment, without the potential for wrecking your car while you learn.

Plus, I'll guarantee you that you'll be grinning ear to ear after your first skid.

Originally Posted by AznKirby

That subaruwrxfan is an idiot though lol

I agree, and personally I think that video should be deleted off the first page. The first thing that guy does when he gets out on the road is ride the clutch. He should NOT be driving along with his foot on the clutch between shifts. That's a very bad habit that over time will kill a throwout bearing, and newbies do not need such a poor example to get them off to the wrong start.

Originally Posted by calidus

Random Question to everyone: Can anyone actually completely press and release the stock clutch without having to move their leg(ie ankle only)? I can't and it drives me crazy, because I tend to jerk the clutch at the every end of releasing it.

You should be moving your entire leg, not just your ankle. When you operate the clutch, your heel should be OFF the floor, and you should operate the clutch using your entire leg from the hip. When you're not specifically engaging or releasing the clutch, your foot should move to the dead pedal. You should never be riding along with your heel on the floor, attempting to engage the clutch with your ankle only.

If you have developed that bad habit, it will feel strange and uncomfortable to lift your whole leg from the hip to operate the clutch. I'll admit that after 15 years in an automatic, I had muscle soreness after my first day of driving this car, and it would have been easy to slip into some lazy bad habits. But that discomfort goes away after a couple of days of driving correctly.

Furthermore, the awkwardness you feel engaging the clutch comes from the fact that you have not developed the proper control over those muscles higher up in your leg and hip, which are rarely used for fine motor skills. Making a conscious effort to use the proper technique will develop better control over those muscles, and after a very short period of time you'll have no trouble doing it smoothly.

Originally Posted by Manic

Also, I've noticed that while shifting from 4th to 5th, I do get a little hung up.

Brother you are not the only one. Coming back to a manual with this car after so many years in an automatic, I felt like a complete moron fumbling around trying to find 5th gear. There seems to be spring resistance at the far right side of neutral that discourages a new driver from inadvertently slipping over into 5th or 6th when looking for 3rd or 4th. I think it has loosened up as I have driven the car, but that may just be me getting accustomed to the shift pattern.

BTW, when my dad drove my car, he had the same issue. That made me feel much less goofy.

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Your grip on the shifter matters nill.

I disagree. Your grip on the shifter doesn't make any difference mechanically, but it can make a huge difference in the smoothness of your body motions. You said "balance and smooth." You have to be relaxed to achieve that.

This is something I learned the hard way while learning to fly airplanes. I was bouncing all over the sky in summer turbulence, and my instructor said, "You're white knuckling the plane." Just telling me to relax didn't help, so he made me take a deep breath, relax my shoulders and then fly the plane with just my fingertips on the yoke. I was amazed that my flying immediately smoothed out, even in reacting to turbulence, over which I thought I had no control. After that, whenever I was having trouble sticking a landing or executing a maneuver, I would realize that I was white knuckling the plane, and just that realization would help me relax and gain better control of the aircraft.

The same thing happens when you're driving a car, especially for someone first developing the skills to drive a stick. If you white knuckle the shifter, it doesn't do anything to the car, but that tension goes up into your shoulders and neck, down your back and back into your other extremities. White knuckling the shifter or steering wheel can actually affect your operation of the pedals at the other end of your body!

Obviously you don't want to drive this car with just your fingertips on the steering wheel, but there's no reason you can't use a loose grip on the shifter and make a conscious effort not to grip the wheel so hard you leave indentations on it. The skill involved in driving a car with a manual transmission will come MUCH faster and easier if the driver is relaxed.

[subiestyle]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

You should be moving your entire leg, not just your ankle. When you operate the clutch, your heel should be OFF the floor, and you should operate the clutch using your entire leg from the hip. When you're not specifically engaging or releasing the clutch, your foot should move to the dead pedal. You should never be riding along with your heel on the floor, attempting to engage the clutch with your ankle only.

If you have developed that bad habit, it will feel strange and uncomfortable to lift your whole leg from the hip to operate the clutch. I'll admit that after 15 years in an automatic, I had muscle soreness after my first day of driving this car, and it would have been easy to slip into some lazy bad habits. But that discomfort goes away after a couple of days of driving correctly.

Furthermore, the awkwardness you feel engaging the clutch comes from the fact that you have not developed the proper control over those muscles higher up in your leg and hip, which are rarely used for fine motor skills. Making a conscious effort to use the proper technique will develop better control over those muscles, and after a very short period of time you'll have no trouble doing it smoothly.

I keep my heel on the floor for about 60% of the movement. If you can manipulate the clutch at its bite point with your heel on the floor, you should do so. You have better finesse control and use less energy on such a light clutch. You will have to lift your foot off the floor to fully release the clutch pedal, but this is after the clutch is engaged.

[Manic]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Brother you are not the only one. Coming back to a manual with this car after so many years in an automatic, I felt like a complete moron fumbling around trying to find 5th gear. There seems to be spring resistance at the far right side of neutral that discourages a new driver from inadvertently slipping over into 5th or 6th when looking for 3rd or 4th. I think it has loosened up as I have driven the car, but that may just be me getting accustomed to the shift pattern.

BTW, when my dad drove my car, he had the same issue. That made me feel much less goofy.

Hmm, that actually makes sense. When I first started driving this car, I had some concerns about accidently going into 5th from 2nd gear (it had been a while since I last drove stick and I've never had a car with a shifter with such short throws). So that makes sense that there would a bit of resistance. A friend of mine had a car that would lockout gears to prevent mis-shifting. Like, you wouldn't be able to go from 2nd to 5th unless you double clutched it.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by Manic

Hmm, that actually makes sense. When I first started driving this car, I had some concerns about accidently going into 5th from 2nd gear (it had been a while since I last drove stick and I've never had a car with a shifter with such short throws). So that makes sense that there would a bit of resistance. A friend of mine had a car that would lockout gears to prevent mis-shifting. Like, you wouldn't be able to go from 2nd to 5th unless you double clutched it.

Well, the proper form (IMO, at least in the twins) of shifting from 2-3 involves letting the spring do the lateral positioning of the shifter, meaning you only move it "forward" with very little bias to the right while the spring centers it just enough to go into 3rd. If done correctly, there should be little to no risk of accidentally shifting to 5th instead of 3rd.

Consequently, I found that anytime I tried to "look for 3rd" via zig-zag shifting (consciously trying to guide the shifter through the gates), I would tend to miss the gate and thus get stuck in neutral.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by subiestyle

I keep my heel on the floor for about 60% of the movement. If you can manipulate the clutch at its bite point with your heel on the floor, you should do so. You have better finesse control and use less energy on such a light clutch. You will have to lift your foot off the floor to fully release the clutch pedal, but this is after the clutch is engaged.

I don't think that's very good advice for a newbie just learning to drive a stick. It's an invitation to develop a lazy bad habit of riding the clutch. There's no finesse you can get from having your heel on the floor that you can't get from developing the muscles in your leg enough to lift it three inches. On the contrary, with your heel on the floor, your freedom of movement is restricted.

I seem to be in good company too. If you watch that Hurley Haywood instructional video on heel/toe technique posted earlier, you'll see that he lifts his left leg exactly the way I described. Obviously heel/toe is more advanced than a newbie should be attempting, but the clutch technique is the same.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqYeusE8ksk#t=816"]Porsche 911 GT3 with Hurley Haywood - Heel/Toe Shift Lesson - YouTube[/ame]

[calidus]

When I was driving this morning, I was going 50 mph in 4th and decided to shift into 5th. I pressed the clutch down and shifted into 5th. Then released the clutch and gently pressed the gas. Only I didn't actually get get the shift intro 5th, I believe I got "stuck in the gate". I heard a noise that reminded me of putting baseball cards into bicycle's spokes. I quickly pressed the clutch again and shifted back into neutral before successfully going into 5th. Did I just grind my gears?

[Ec1990]

Originally Posted by calidus

When I was driving this morning, I was going 50 mph in 4th and decided to shift into 5th. I pressed the clutch down and shifted into 5th. Then released the clutch and gently pressed the gas. Only I didn't actually get get the shift intro 5th, I believe I got "stuck in the gate". I heard a noise that reminded me of putting baseball cards into bicycle's spokes. I quickly pressed the clutch again and shifted back into neutral before successfully going into 5th. Did I just grind my gears?

Not exactly, grinding your gears involves the clutch not being depressed or fully depressed and attempting to put it in gear. It sounds like you would expect.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by calidus

Only I didn't actually get get the shift intro 5th, I believe I got "stuck in the gate". I heard a noise that reminded me of putting baseball cards into bicycle's spokes.

Sounds like you let the clutch out a wee bit early before getting it fully into gear. Don't dwell on it. Once isn't going to ruin a gearbox. Just don't make a habit of it.

[subiestyle]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I don't think that's very good advice for a newbie just learning to drive a stick. It's an invitation to develop a lazy bad habit of riding the clutch. There's no finesse you can get from having your heel on the floor that you can't get from developing the muscles in your leg enough to lift it three inches. On the contrary, with your heel on the floor, your freedom of movement is restricted.

I seem to be in good company too. If you watch that Hurley Haywood instructional video on heel/toe technique posted earlier, you'll see that he lifts his left leg exactly the way I described. Obviously heel/toe is more advanced than a newbie should be attempting, but the clutch technique is the same.

shifting for speed or racing is different. you never have to get into first gear, or start off in first gear, so the the heel on the floor method is not necessary.

you aren't riding the clutch because you should only be doing this if your foot is big enough to keep it planted and operate the clutch. my heel stays on the floor after the clutch is engaged, but i have to move my leg completely off to make sure the throwout bearing and other components aren't being worn.

now if i was racing, then you do move your whole leg because speed wins over finesse.

you may have learned on an older car where the clutch travel was really long and you had to move your whole leg, but on our cars, the clutch travel is relatively short.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by calidus

When I was driving this morning, I was going 50 mph in 4th and decided to shift into 5th. I pressed the clutch down and shifted into 5th. Then released the clutch and gently pressed the gas. Only I didn't actually get get the shift intro 5th, I believe I got "stuck in the gate". I heard a noise that reminded me of putting baseball cards into bicycle's spokes. I quickly pressed the clutch again and shifted back into neutral before successfully going into 5th. Did I just grind my gears?

+1 for small grind. If you heard a sound, it probably means you were half-way engaged in 5th rather than stuck between gates, the latter of which would typically leave you safely in neutral