Why do people do wild swaps(RB, LS1), when u can just buy a Porsche, Ferrari, etc?

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Sad to say I partial-traded the Z for the FD. Gave up car I built from dead stock to a 255rwhp street/track monster that took on and beat Z06s, Vipers, 911 Turbos etc. at the track. in its (and my) day


The Z is a much better platform for such swaps because of its basic architecture. To accommodate a LONG inline 6 while maintaining 50/50 weight distribution (mine weighed in at 49F/51R with fuel and me in it), the front wheels are shoved way forward of the firewall. This means you can swap in a large-displacement V8 and *IMPROVE* weight distribution (move it rearward), which is pretty critical to putting down a lot more power. Also, an LS V8 not any heavier than the stock iron-block aluminum-head inline 6, so near-zero weight gain.

With the FR-S/BRZ, some critical factors are working against you:
1. Front-biased 54/46 F/R weight distribution with driver and fuel might not seem too far off from 50/50, but that's 8% less weight on the drive wheels. Not an issue with 200hp, but it becomes significant when adding big power.

2. Since the stock engine is a very short H4, so just about any engine you swap in will have its c.g. situated well forward of the stock engine.

3. Since the stock engine is an aluminum 2.0 four, just about any big-power potential engine is going to be somewhat heavier, so the car is heavier and the c.g. is moved still further forward

In the end, with an LS FR-S/BRZ you'll have a ~2800-2850 lb. car with ~56/44 weight distribution with driver and fuel, vs. the swap in the 280Z where you'll be about the same weight with 49/51 (or better) weight distribution. The Z will have 14% more static weight on the drive wheels. That's HUGE if you're trying to put down ~400rwhp in a car of this weight.

LS only adds 50 to 60 pounds over the OEM engine, If your like me, going from FI, the turbo, inter cooler, piping, external oil pump etc.etc. that 50 to 60 pounds is negligible.... btw...that boxer weights a ton. Most of the boxer engine weight is concentrated on or in front of the front wheels, the LS sits a full 10" further back than the OEM boxer in my case (and I do believe Weapons Grade kit as well) as it has to for clearance of the throttle body on the intake to clear the hood, ( that is pretty significant ) with most of the increased weight difference between the two powertrains being the transmission for the LS conversion , that moves even more weight aft ( most will use a Tremec T56 I'm using a Magnum XL heavy beefy transmissions). So what your saying is nonsense and the FRS/BRZ will benefit greatly with weight distribution and balance over OEM with an LS conversion at any horsepower.
I have the weights and measurements if you need me to post them.

[Manji]

We're currently weighing up whether to use a lower comp built fa20 for 400whp track duties

or whether to use a 3sge beams.

The beams revs better. Doesnt have oiling issues. Not to mention its a true Toyota overbuilt motor, just like a 2jz.

If you're tracking a turbo fa20 you need to drysump it. If you want it to last that is.

[SomeoneWhoIsntMe]

the BEANS is fucking dope, obviously you should do that.

are turbo beans builds common in straya / NZ now? I couldn't find a whole lot of info when I was looking into it previously.

[Manji]

Originally Posted by SomeoneWhoIsntMe

the BEANS is fucking dope, obviously you should do that.

are turbo beans builds common in straya / NZ now? I couldn't find a whole lot of info when I was looking into it previously.

One of our guys has one in a ae86 that he uses for competitive drifting.

There are also 2 or 3 others involved in edurance racing.

It's certainly not common. But there's an engine builder over here that seems to have 'cracked it' when it comes to beams race motors.

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

I have the weights and measurements if you need me to post them.

Your car is the one at Vorshlag, I assume? I don't remember seeing numbers posted after they got the engine and trans in place. I'd like to see the final weights if you have them.

[fooddude]

@cf6mech: When is the next update for that/your Vorshlag Alpha swap blog/thread?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

LS only adds 50 to 60 pounds over the OEM engine, If your like me, going from FI, the turbo, inter cooler, piping, external oil pump etc.etc. that 50 to 60 pounds is negligible.... btw...that boxer weights a ton.

Adding power via V8 or turbo, either way it is going to add weight up front.

Most of the boxer engine weight is concentrated on or in front of the front wheels, the LS sits a full 10" further back than the OEM boxer in my case

I'd like to see pics, I don't see how this is possible. Maybe the BACK of the LS sits somewhat further aft (although 10" is still difficult to believe), the LS is a lot longer.


Understand your point about the massive T56, this could put engine/trans c.g. at a similar place to FA20 engine/trans c.g. location, but given the 2+2 configuration and the relatively forward engine location, the trans is still putting more weight on the front wheels than the rears.

So what your saying is nonsense and the FRS/BRZ will benefit greatly with weight distribution and balance over OEM with an LS conversion at any horsepower.
I have the weights and measurements if you need me to post them.

Post them, of course.

If you were able to maintain stock weight distribution, or even improve it, congrats! But if there are other mods that help achieve that, please list them.

There are FD V8 swaps that have similar weight distribution to the stock 49/51, but like vs. like, with A/C, power steering, etc. weight moves forward about 1.5%.
I can't imagine the situation is any better with the FR-S, given how much further forward the firewall is relative to the front and rear wheels.

[Reaper]

Look at your engine bay. The fa20 and transmission sit needlessly far forword. You can remove the slave cylinder with a box wrench from the top of the engine compartment for crying out load. The tail section of the transmission ends before the shift linkage which is well forward of the center of the car. And there's enough room between the heads and the firewall to stuff a turbo some sections of 3 inch pipe and a pump in there. Half of my wife can fit in between this engine and the firewall when she works on it.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Manji

We're currently weighing up whether to use a lower comp built fa20 for 400whp track duties

or whether to use a 3sge beams.

The beams revs better. Doesnt have oiling issues. Not to mention its a true Toyota overbuilt motor, just like a 2jz.

If you're tracking a turbo fa20 you need to drysump it. If you want it to last that is.

We've discussed this idea about 2 years ago... @CSG Mike had a BEAMS swap before in his SW.

[fooddude]

Beams 3sge would be awesome..but wouldn't it be not worth the hassle for such a small and weak engine? Meaning...it'd be a fully custom swap (harder than LSx, since it hasn't been done yet), you have to figure out and fab everything..just to end up with a similarly small displacement 4 banger as the FA. Granted, you'd have the advantages you mentioned (tougher built, higher revving, better oil delivery, etc), but the power would be similar to a built FA...and that's only after a lot of work/time/money swapping it in there first.

Sounds much easier to do a fully built low comp FA with strong internals and improved cams/valvetrain...you don't have to figure out and waste time positioning new engine/mounts, drivetrain, cooling, fuel, wiring, ecu, etc etc etc. New built FA will bolt in and you retain factory low COG.

LSx, however, seems a lot more worth it for that amount of custom swap work, over a dinky 3sge overstraining to squeeze every little bit of power. LSx can pump 400whp and tq all day and will eat Beams motors for breakfast.

[fooddude]

This guy has an LS3.

Anyone know the engine specs and how much power it makes?

What kind of ITBs are those and who makes them?

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=my3ond9vd0U[/ame]

[Jdogg88]

To keep in line with what people do with ae86's, anyone have any thoughts about sr20 swaps or f20/2 swap? Both engines have been around for a while now and have tremendous aftermarket support that can offer more than enough power for our chassis.

Just an idea that lingers

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by Jdogg88

To keep in line with what people do with ae86's, anyone have any thoughts about sr20 swaps or f20/2 swap? Both engines have been around for a while now and have tremendous aftermarket support that can offer more than enough power for our chassis.

Just an idea that lingers

...but, so can the FA ...too similar for the large effort imo

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Adding power via V8 or turbo, either way it is going to add weight up front.


I'd like to see pics, I don't see how this is possible. Maybe the BACK of the LS sits somewhat further aft (although 10" is still difficult to believe), the LS is a lot longer.


Understand your point about the massive T56, this could put engine/trans c.g. at a similar place to FA20 engine/trans c.g. location, but given the 2+2 configuration and the relatively forward engine location, the trans is still putting more weight on the front wheels than the rears.



Post them, of course.

If you were able to maintain stock weight distribution, or even improve it, congrats! But if there are other mods that help achieve that, please list them.

There are FD V8 swaps that have similar weight distribution to the stock 49/51, but like vs. like, with A/C, power steering, etc. weight moves forward about 1.5%.
I can't imagine the situation is any better with the FR-S, given how much further forward the firewall is relative to the front and rear wheels.

Power steering?......the ft86 has electric steering......pump will be removed on LS .....more weight saving......the car was weighed per corner before......and will be weighed after.........did you not read the build thread......it also explains how ridiculously forward Subaru placed this engine.......take the time to read it.