Is weight no longer an issue in sports cars?

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

A big part of it is price. They could build the 86 with half the weight but then it would be a $100,000 car and nobody could afford it. The really lightweight cars are expensive for a reason and comparing them to an entry level coupe is not apples to apples.
As said the modern equipment which either people demand or the government requires unfortunately adds weight. The manufacturers try to make every car (even the SUVs and pickup trucks) as light as possible to meet their emissions and mileage requirements. Then another department requires even more stringent safety devices which add weight. On top of both of those they still have to meet a price point which keeps the vehicle competitive which in turn restricts the materials they can use. It is a balancing act that they struggle with on all vehicles all the time. Our engineers are tasked by our customers to shave as much weight as possible off our rotors each time we quote and it is truly amazing the ways they can come up with to cut a few ounces but maintain or even improve function with each upgrade. If we didn't have the tech we have now modern cars would be even heavier than they are!

I thought I said the same thing, just less words. Lol

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

A big part of it is price. They could build the 86 with half the weight but then it would be a $100,000 car and nobody could afford it. The really lightweight cars are expensive for a reason and comparing them to an entry level coupe is not apples to apples.
As said the modern equipment which either people demand or the government requires unfortunately adds weight. The manufacturers try to make every car (even the SUVs and pickup trucks) as light as possible to meet their emissions and mileage requirements. Then another department requires even more stringent safety devices which add weight. On top of both of those they still have to meet a price point which keeps the vehicle competitive which in turn restricts the materials they can use. It is a balancing act that they struggle with on all vehicles all the time. Our engineers are tasked by our customers to shave as much weight as possible off our rotors each time we quote and it is truly amazing the ways they can come up with to cut a few ounces but maintain or even improve function with each upgrade. If we didn't have the tech we have now modern cars would be even heavier than they are!

I agree with everything you say

but what really bothers me is that they don't even mention the fact that some of these newer status cars are getting too heavy.

I'm following reviews of the new 911 992 (I love 911s and always considering one) and I am so saddened that now the 911 is no longer a car I would want to buy because of how heavy it's gotten, yet reviews are not even mentioning this.

I do believe car reviewers help shape the sports car industry. Maybe this is my own opinion and it is wrong, but I do feel that cars such as the 911 were made famous in large part due to the rave reviews they get. So if reviewers are not calling out modern sports cars for being heavy and just skipping over this point, than sports cars will just continue to get heavier and heavier.

[JR]

The BRZ is the lightest vehicle I have owned and to be honest, I never got in a 3,500+lb vehicle and said to myself, "This sure feels heavy. It would be better if it was lighter". Usually the heavier vehicles have the power to make up for the weight and are great highway cruisers. If the vehicle is smaller in size, but weighs a little more and has the right amount of power (new Supra), the extra weight doesn't bother me.

P.S. I don't track or autocross my vehicles, maybe that is why I don't really care.

[RyMi]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

I agree with everything you say



but what really bothers me is that they don't even mention the fact that some of these newer status cars are getting too heavy.



I'm following reviews of the new 911 992 (I love 911s and always considering one) and I am so saddened that now the 911 is no longer a car I would want to buy because of how heavy it's gotten, yet reviews are not even mentioning this.



I do believe car reviewers help shape the sports car industry. Maybe this is my own opinion and it is wrong, but I do feel that cars such as the 911 were made famous in large part due to the rave reviews they get. So if reviewers are not calling out modern sports cars for being heavy and just skipping over this point, than sports cars will just continue to get heavier and heavier.

I’ve definitely heard some of the die hard Porsche cult complain about how large an heavy the cars are becoming. But I think, specifically towards Porsches, there is a sort of bias towards them in auto journalism where they can’t do ANYTHING wrong haha.

Don’t get me wrong they make incredible, incredible cars and I’d love to own one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

I agree with everything you say

but what really bothers me is that they don't even mention the fact that some of these newer status cars are getting too heavy.

I'm following reviews of the new 911 992 (I love 911s and always considering one) and I am so saddened that now the 911 is no longer a car I would want to buy because of how heavy it's gotten, yet reviews are not even mentioning this.

I do believe car reviewers help shape the sports car industry. Maybe this is my own opinion and it is wrong, but I do feel that cars such as the 911 were made famous in large part due to the rave reviews they get. So if reviewers are not calling out modern sports cars for being heavy and just skipping over this point, than sports cars will just continue to get heavier and heavier.

ALL cars are getting heavier. The "sports cars" are still far lighter proportionally than the sedans. What would be the point of screaming "they are heavier" when there is nothing they could do to make them lighter? I already stated why they have gotten heavier and that is not going to change. The increase in weight is why there have also been to increases in HP it is intended to counter that weight. I know that many forum members are the exception but the number of car buyers that are worried about weight is probably well under 1%. There is no shortage of lighter cars if you have the money to pay for them. Complaining that they are heavier is just pissing into the wind.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

I thought I said the same thing, just less words. Lol

That is why I said "as mentioned".

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

ALL cars are getting heavier. The "sports cars" are still far lighter proportionally than the sedans. What would be the point of screaming "they are heavier" when there is nothing they could do to make them lighter? I already stated why they have gotten heavier and that is not going to change. The increase in weight is why there have also been to increases in HP it is intended to counter that weight. I know that many forum members are the exception but the number of car buyers that are worried about weight is probably well under 1%. There is no shortage of lighter cars if you have the money to pay for them. Complaining that they are heavier is just pissing into the wind.

If I understood your first post correctly, you seem to be on the inside of things when it comes to the underlying problem of why cars are getting heavier all the time.

Let me ask you this: what's your take on the Alpine A110 and what they've been able to accomplish with that vehicle?

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by JR

The BRZ is the lightest vehicle I have owned and to be honest, I never got in a 3,500+lb vehicle and said to myself, "This sure feels heavy. It would be better if it was lighter". Usually the heavier vehicles have the power to make up for the weight and are great highway cruisers. If the vehicle is smaller in size, but weighs a little more and has the right amount of power (new Supra), the extra weight doesn't bother me.

P.S. I don't track or autocross my vehicles, maybe that is why I don't really care.

I guess your miles may vary. I myself always felt the weight of the vehicle and always feel I had my most fun in the lighter more nimble ones.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Most of the cars are turbocharged now so there is so much torque from down low compared to an NA car that it doesn't even matter what the weight is. Torque doesn't seem to follow the laws of physics lol. A heavy ass Bentley Continental is fast af because it's got like 500-600 lb-ft from barely tickover

[strat61caster]

911 isn't a sports car, it's a grand tourer, always has been always will be.

but Ferry Porsche felt that his company's business was not selling super-duper sedans or ultra-ultra sports/racing cars but optimum-priced, optimum-size, optimum-performance Gran Turismo cars, which is exactly what the 911 is.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/


Most cars don't bother being actual sports cars because those don't sell well because most people don't perform any sports in their sporting vehicles (see above). 86 and MX5 are the only options under $40k new, and over $40k it's really just Lotus, everyone else is just selling cars to assholes with too much money (Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette) or regular cars that are sported up (BMW, Audi, Lexus, Merc), and every once in awhile they're actually good to drive (well most of the time for Porsche, and everyone else is stepping up their game).

[DarkSunrise]

Some manufacturers still care.

- Mazda made a big deal about the ND Miata matching the weight and size of the original NA, while boasting modern rigidity, safety and emissions.

- The first-gen FR-S at 2750 lbs. was pretty light for what it is (2+2 RWD coupe with an H4 engine).

- VW reduced the overall weight on the mk7 GTI platform (despite increased size and rigidity over the mk6), mainly by using more high strength, thermoformed steel.

- I remember when Ford tried to boast about the reduced weight of the s550 Mustang platform. It turns out their numbers were misleading, but at the very least they were trying.

I actually think as FE standards rise, we will just see more of an emphasis on lighter weight.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

If I understood your first post correctly, you seem to be on the inside of things when it comes to the underlying problem of why cars are getting heavier all the time.

Let me ask you this: what's your take on the Alpine A110 and what they've been able to accomplish with that vehicle?

All aluminium body
Aluminum and titanium suspension and structural components
One piece un-sprung and barely padded seats.
Two seats smaller than 86.
Minimalist interior
Expensive lightweight wheels
Very doubtful would even come close to meeting US crash requirements.
If available here would be pushing $100,000

It is NOT your standard mass produced inexpensive coupe and to expect the same from such would be a pipe dream.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Some manufacturers still care.

- Mazda made a big deal about the ND Miata matching the weight and size of the original NA, while boasting modern rigidity, safety and emissions.

- The first-gen FR-S at 2750 lbs. was pretty light for what it is (2+2 RWD coupe with an H4 engine).

- VW reduced the overall weight on the mk7 GTI platform (despite increased size and rigidity over the mk6), mainly by using more high strength, thermoformed steel.

- I remember when Ford tried to boast about the reduced weight of the s550 Mustang platform. It turns out their numbers were misleading, but at the very least they were trying.

I actually think as FE standards rise, we will just see more of an emphasis on lighter weight.

They ALL care. Even with their other vehicles. It isn't a matter of caring it is a matter of economics.

[JR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They ALL care. Even with their other vehicles. It isn't a matter of caring it is a matter of economics.

Isn't it always .