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Old 11-03-2018, 08:33 AM   #15
JIM THEO
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It seems for me better solution than a lower thermostat or additive to just add some more de-ionized water in my antifreeze!
Subaru uses "Super coolant" that is 50-50 water-ethylene glycol mix for -32C degrees and the lower I have seen locally the last fifteen years is -12C degrees thus adding at 7.5t antifreeze of the car say 750ml (10%) de-ionized water will increase cooling capacity without creating problems the winter, I am thinking of a 60-40 water-ethylene glycol mix what do you guys think?

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Old 11-03-2018, 09:23 AM   #16
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According to this https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/e...col-d_146.html if I go from the factory 50-50% (deionized water-ethylene glygol) mix to a 60-40% mix I have about 4-5% increased heat capacity at summer temperatures (>35C/95F) which is better than every additive or lower thermostat can give me and freezing point is reduced from -32C to -23C that is enough for local climate conditions!
Am I wrong in my calculations or the 60-40 mix could cause rust problems?
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Old 11-03-2018, 11:34 AM   #17
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You seem to be disregarding what everyone is saying.

Our radiator for cooling the coolant is overkill in our car. Almost nobody has pushed it beyond its cooling capacity. Even on hot day track times.

The main problem with our car is oil overheating. NOT THE COOLANT.

I don't understand why you're so paranoid about coolant when it should be your oil.
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Old 11-03-2018, 01:10 PM   #18
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You seem to be disregarding what everyone is saying.

Our radiator for cooling the coolant is overkill in our car. Almost nobody has pushed it beyond its cooling capacity. Even on hot day track times.

The main problem with our car is oil overheating. NOT THE COOLANT.

I don't understand why you're so paranoid about coolant when it should be your oil.
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? can he not be concerned about both simultaneously?

The intake throttle body is looped into and gets cooled by the coolant, which could theoretically lower intake temperatures by passing a cooler throttle body vs a hotter throttle body?

also some people run the forester/oem/ned oil cooler which relies on the coolant/radiator to lower oil temps which in turn results in higher coolant temps. lowering those coolant temps could also potentially increase the effectiveness of the oil cooler keeping oil temps slightly lower.

Is there absolutely no possible benefit in any scenario to lowering coolant temps from say 195F-205F down to say 185F-195F? or especially lowering 10 degrees during canyon runs / spirited driving? This would result in zero benefits at all?
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Old 11-03-2018, 01:17 PM   #19
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Is there absolutely no possible benefit in any scenario to lowering coolant temps from say 195F-205F down to say 185F-195F? or especially lowering 10 degrees during canyon runs / spirited driving? This would result in zero benefits at all?
Lowering the coolant temperature helps a bit the oil temperatures too. Not a massive improvement if you don't use an oil cooler, but maybe in the range of getting lower 5°C . There were some relevant posts in the past. I don't have time to search now.
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:47 PM   #20
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You seem to be disregarding what everyone is saying.

I don't understand why you're so paranoid about coolant when it should be your oil.
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Originally Posted by JIM THEO
The reason I ask is that knock is directly affected by coolant temperatures and even 5 Celcius degrees have impact in total advance timing!
Read again my first post please, I DON'T HAVE OVERHEATING ISSUES WITH COOLANT (max I have log is 93+C degrees), I just want to keep at lower safe point coolant temperatures as they are somehow connected with flkc and even some degrees help in maximizing advance timing.
As Nikitopo mentioned Cosworth claims lower coolant temps mean some more horsepower, in my case mean less knock correction!
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Old 11-03-2018, 06:02 PM   #21
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Read again my first post please, I DON'T HAVE OVERHEATING ISSUES WITH COOLANT (max I have log is 93+C degrees), I just want to keep at lower safe point coolant temperatures as they are somehow connected with flkc and even some degrees help in maximizing advance timing.
As Nikitopo mentioned Cosworth claims lower coolant temps mean some more horsepower, in my case mean less knock correction!
What are your oil temps doing when you're seeing this flkc? What about intake temps?

I'd be surprised if coolant temp was the actual cause of that and if lowering it a few degrees had any impact at all. Correlation doesn't always equate to causation.
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:02 PM   #22
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Intake air temperatures (IAT) follow engine coolant temperatures (ECT) so their impact in flkc is direct, this is common in all Subaru engines I have seen.



In my case some flkc I have is fuel related, oil temperatures are not more than 112C degrees in last logs, I just want to minimize as much as possible knock correction by lowering ECT = lowered IAT.
I may be wrong though!
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:23 PM   #23
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To the original question, water wetter is intended for people running straight water at the track. It is just a corrosion inhibitor and surfactant that helps reduce problems with running straight water. It really does nothing for a car running coolant, but it doesn't hurt so they are happy to sell it to you. I imagine the other products are the same.


You de-ionized water theory is not sound. The optimum coolant mix for efficiency and anti-boil protection is about 70% water, and in a place like Greece you can certainly run that all year.



Everyone keeps telling you that this car doesn't have cooling capacity issues, so if you want to drop coolant temps you simply need to change thermostats. If you go to low however, your car will never come out of open loop. If you are worried about combustion chamber temps, and oil cooler can only help.
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:33 PM   #24
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just force radiator fan to run sooner already at 89 or 9p C and you re done with your concern

anyway i dont thimk they are strictly correlated , your log is just showing heat soak at a stop, intake is ALWAYS going to rise at a stop and you fix the knock for heat soak with the table IAT ign timing comp
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Old 11-03-2018, 09:17 PM   #25
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Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? can he not be concerned about both simultaneously? This.

The intake throttle body is looped into and gets cooled by the coolant, which could theoretically lower intake temperatures by passing a cooler throttle body vs a hotter throttle body?
It doesn't get cooled by the coolant, unless I am mistaken. The coolant circulates through the throttle body to heat it, so in snow/cool climates the throttle body doesn't freeze shut. Mine is bypassed/blocked off. Most consider removing the lines a positive mod to reduce heat at the throttle body.

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As Nikitopo mentioned Cosworth claims lower coolant temps mean some more horsepower, in my case mean less knock correction!
That claim is a certainty. It is basic physics, but to what extent it matters, that is the question. Is it 2hp or 10hp or more? Race teams have used ice to cool the manifolds, the coolant, dry ice against the fuel lines, sprayed water or NOS on all types of parts. Cooler stuff is usually better, but again, by how much does it matter.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:11 AM   #26
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just force radiator fan to run sooner already at 89 or 9p C and you re done with your concern

anyway i dont thimk they are strictly correlated , your log is just showing heat soak at a stop, intake is ALWAYS going to rise at a stop and you fix the knock for heat soak with the table IAT ign timing comp
As I said the small flkc I have is fuel related (K00G is worse than previous EUDM cars regarding knock, I don't know why) but I can't do something about this, except to use the best locally available fuel that is quite expensive though about 2 euros!
I already have fans run sooner so continuing with my current 100RON fuel a slightly lower thermostat, say 76C instead of the factory at 82C, could be a good idea if I find a quality and reliable one.
I think knock behavior is directly connected with coolant/oil temperatures, I looked at all my previous logs and when combustion chamber is hot enough due to increased oil (>=110C) and coolant temps (>=93C) always appear some knock correction here and there.
Probably an oil cooler along with a lower thermostat could help a lot on this, I have no increased temperatures just try to help my car to work more efficiently!
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:34 AM   #27
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how can you reach 93C? i NEVER passed 89-90 even with oil at 131C at track, and as soon and i slow down fans start and it goes back to 88-89C immediatly

the thing that my17 cars knock more i think it s partially true, with an almost identical tune i did for a my12 car, and same fuel, i reached the same ign timing (even 33.5 at 5200rpm), maybe 0.5 less than the older car
sure if you keep using k00g v4 tune as base tune...
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Old 11-04-2018, 06:06 AM   #28
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how can you reach 93C? i NEVER passed 89-90 even with oil at 131C at track, and as soon and i slow down fans start and it goes back to 88-89C immediatly

the thing that my17 cars knock more i think it s partially true, with an almost identical tune i did for a my12 car, and same fuel, i reached the same ign timing (even 33.5 at 5200rpm), maybe 0.5 less than the older car
sure if you keep using k00g v4 tune as base tune...
I am wondering the same especially after cross checking with some friends GT86, do you believe K00G V4 base tune is responsible for this?
I don't care for FFS-LC, so you suggest me to copy all the changed tables from my current V4 tune to my factory K00G ROM?

This log is after some 3rd-4th-5th runs to log mainly flkc, no more than 4-5 in total from low to high rpms!

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