Video: HKS 86 drift car + first 86/FR-S/BRZ dyno = 170 rwhp!!!

[concept_cynic]

Originally Posted by KidWonder

Horsepower is just a mathematical number, not a measurable force. The two measurable components of hp are torque & RPM, so you can't really compare hp & torque, because one is based on the other.

So are you saying he is wrong? The math is correct.

[armythug]

Some of these posts could easily kill one's aspirations of owning this car. Especially if you're not as mechanically inclined.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

Originally Posted by concept_cynic

So are you saying he is wrong? The math is correct.

From an algebra perspective the math is correct, working the formulas around to figure HP from tq and RPM works accurately, but the calculated figure is HP. Because you cannot measure HP you cannot determine with any certainty the TQ produced.

[86'd]

I want to see a curve!

I'm still curious where TQ is delivered.

Hope they hurry up, it's either this or a Camry. . .

[KidWonder]

Originally Posted by concept_cynic

So are you saying he is wrong? The math is correct.

What I'm saying is Horsepower is not a measurable force, it's a calculated measurement of the output of an engine.

To get horsepower from torque(moment of force) Pounds-force feet (lbf.ft; lb ft.) x 1.356 = Newton meters (Nm) x 0.738 = pounds - force feet ( lbf ft; lb ft.), the formula for horsepower is; 1 horsepower = 746 watts x 0.0013 = Horsepower. I know this seems complicated but it really is'nt.

Torque doesn't equal 'HP*RPM'. You couldn't know the horsepower without torque...but with the computers we have today, a computer will do all that math for us.

[concept_cynic]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

From an algebra perspective the math is correct, working the formulas around to figure HP from tq and RPM works accurately, but the calculated figure is HP. Because you cannot measure HP you cannot determine with any certainty the TQ produced.

What? If you know what HP is @ xRPM then you can figure out TQ @ xRPM too.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by catharsis

I mean it is what I expected. 170 is acceptable, 180 would have been impressive.

Could be 180wrhp on the north American cars...we will see in 5 months...well 4 if some of the first 86 FR-S winners dyno their cars...

[concept_cynic]

Originally Posted by KidWonder

What I'm saying is Horsepower is not a measurable force, it's a calculated measurement of the output of an engine.

To get horsepower from torque(moment of force) Pounds-force feet (lbf.ft; lb ft.) x 1.356 = Newton meters (Nm) x 0.738 = pounds - force feet ( lbf ft; lb ft.), the formula for horsepower is; 1 horsepower = 746 watts x 0.0013 = Horsepower. I know this seems complicated but it really is'nt.

Torque doesn't equal 'HP*RPM'. You couldn't know the horsepower without torque...but with the computers we have today, a computer will do all that math for us.

Yeah HP = TQ over time = work. Thats easy but I just don't understand if you were saying he was wrong or not.

No one said tq=h*rpm. The formula is tq=(hp*rpm)/5252

Edit: HP does not equal work. Tq is work.

[concept_cynic]

Originally Posted by KidWonder

To get horsepower from torque(moment of force) Pounds-force feet (lbf.ft; lb ft.) x 1.356 = Newton meters (Nm) x 0.738 = pounds - force feet ( lbf ft; lb ft.), the formula for horsepower is; 1 horsepower = 746 watts x 0.0013 = Horsepower. I know this seems complicated but it really is'nt.

This paragraph doesn't make any sense either. At the beginning it sounds like you are about to tell me how to get HP from TQ but the rest of it tells me how to convert to different units lol (how to convert HP into Watts and how to convert 'pounds-force feet' into Nm).

[Spaceywilly]

ugh. It's amazing how many people don't understand hp vs. torque

Torque is a force, just like gravity, magnetism, weak and strong nuclear force, it is to quote wikipedia that which can cause an object with mass to change its velocity. 1lb.ft of torque is the amount of force required to move 1lb of mass (technically lb is weight, but we don't pay attention to that since we are usually staying on the same planet) 1 foot. Just remember force = mass x accelaration. Force causes a mass to accelerate.

Horsepower is a measure of power, power is the rate at which work is being done. Work, in turn, is force applied over a distance. Horsepower, specifically, is the rate of work one horse can do in one day, I believe measured by Watt (the man, not the unit of measure). He determined that a horse can move 1lb of weight 5252feet in 1 day. The important thing to know is that horsepower is a rate, and does not actually "do" anything. To take the example of the horse, any horse has 1 hp, meaning it is capable of moving 1 lb weight 5252feet over the course of day. Until it actually starts moving something, that is applying a force to an object with mass, it isn't doing anything and therefore not creating any power. If you wanted to dyno your horse, you would connect it to a harness attached to 1lb of resistance, then let it walk around in that harness for a whole day. Take the number of feet your horse walked that day, divide it by 5252, and you get horsepower. If your horse went 10,000 feet you would have a badass horse. If it went 10million feet you would have a Bugatti Veyron.

So back to our car engine discussion. In order to calculate the horsepower of an engine, you must know how much force is being applied over what distance. The rotation of the wheels gives us the distance, and the resistance provided by the dyno gives us the force. The dyno doesn't actually measure horsepower, it only measures how much torque it is creating (which is equal to the torque the engine is producing, multiplied by the transmission, differentials, and wheels) and it records the RPM of the engine. From these two values (torque and RPM) it can calculate the horsepower. So, in conclusion, torque is a force and can be measured (although on a wheel dyno you are not actually measuring the engine torque, so you still have to do some calculating). Horsepower is a rate of work and can only be calculated.

So what does it all mean for you when you're driving your car? Your car has mass, and in order to change its velocity, a force must act on that mass. That force is the engine torque. If you pick an RPM and look at the amount of torque the engine can produce at that RPM, you will have an idea of how quickly it can accelerate at that RPM. If you have two cars going the same speed, and one has an engine with more torque at that speed, that car will accelerate faster if both drivers punch it at the same time. It's that simple. Horsepower, being a function of torque, has the same relationship, however peak horsepower is the reason horsepower comes in handy. If a car can create a lot of torque at high RPMs, that engine will continue to accelerate longer. A car with the same torque but a lower redline will have to shift sooner, into a gear with less torque multiplication, and so it will be slower.

[KidWonder]

Originally Posted by concept_cynic

This paragraph doesn't make any sense either. At the beginning it sounds like you are about to tell me how to get HP from TQ but the rest of it tells me how to convert to different units lol (how to convert HP into Watts and how to convert 'pounds-force feet' into Nm).

I did tell you to convert TQ to HP. Then I went haywire and decided to convert them into different units of measurement. lol

[Guff]

I got your Camry right here!!!




Joking aside, good numbers. Can't wait to Quad-TurboSupercharge it.

[concept_cynic]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

ugh. It's amazing how many people don't understand hp vs. torque

Torque is a force, just like gravity, magnetism, weak and strong nuclear force, it is to quote wikipedia that which can cause an object with mass to change its velocity. 1lb.ft of torque is the amount of force required to move 1lb of mass (technically lb is weight, but we don't pay attention to that since we are usually staying on the same planet) 1 foot. Just remember force = mass x accelaration. Force causes a mass to accelerate.

Horsepower is a measure of power, power is the rate at which work is being done. Work, in turn, is force applied over a distance. Horsepower, specifically, is the rate of work one horse can do in one day, I believe measured by Watt (the man, not the unit of measure). He determined that a horse can move 1lb of weight 5252feet in 1 day. The important thing to know is that horsepower is a rate, and does not actually "do" anything. To take the example of the horse, any horse has 1 hp, meaning it is capable of moving 1 lb weight 5252feet over the course of day. Until it actually starts moving something, that is applying a force to an object with mass, it isn't doing anything and therefore not creating any power. If you wanted to dyno your horse, you would connect it to a harness attached to 1lb of resistance, then let it walk around in that harness for a whole day. Take the number of feet your horse walked that day, divide it by 5252, and you get horsepower. If your horse went 10,000 feet you would have a badass horse. If it went 10million feet you would have a Bugatti Veyron.

So back to our car engine discussion. In order to calculate the horsepower of an engine, you must know how much force is being applied over what distance. The rotation of the wheels gives us the distance, and the resistance provided by the dyno gives us the force. The dyno doesn't actually measure horsepower, it only measures how much torque it is creating (which is equal to the torque the engine is producing, multiplied by the transmission, differentials, and wheels) and it records the RPM of the engine. From these two values (torque and RPM) it can calculate the horsepower. So, in conclusion, torque is a force and can be measured (although on a wheel dyno you are not actually measuring the engine torque, so you still have to do some calculating). Horsepower is a rate of work and can only be calculated.

So what does it all mean for you when you're driving your car? Your car has mass, and in order to change its velocity, a force must act on that mass. That force is the engine torque. If you pick an RPM and look at the amount of torque the engine can produce at that RPM, you will have an idea of how quickly it can accelerate at that RPM. If you have two cars going the same speed, and one has an engine with more torque at that speed, that car will accelerate faster if both drivers punch it at the same time. It's that simple. Horsepower, being a function of torque, has the same relationship, however peak horsepower is the reason horsepower comes in handy. If a car can create a lot of torque at high RPMs, that engine will continue to accelerate longer. A car with the same torque but a lower redline will have to shift sooner, into a gear with less torque multiplication, and so it will be slower.

I think we all are starting to confuse terms some. I put earlier that HP=work but that isn't true. TQ=work and HP=work/time. Just to clear that up. Also, 1hp=550lbft/second. I think your 5252ft/day thing is off some.

[bsivoljr]

My k24a2 makes 205 stock. Boltons Im around 230.

I swear this thing is gonna be slow in a straight line and on a course Boost is absolutely necessary to get the fun I want out of this. Drifting should be pretty fun. Still need more power though to make drifting a little easier.

I was angry about them veering so far from the concept but ok Im over it it looks good, but now the power is sub par. You guys will be getting smoked by Honda's from the 90's