follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > DIY (Do-It-Yourself) Guides

DIY (Do-It-Yourself) Guides For all DIYs.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-26-2014, 02:44 AM   #1
Chalk
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2014 FRS MT Asphalt
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 12
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Octane Booster Mix Advice?

Hi,

So I'm pretty new here and to the FR-S, okay that isn't true..I lurked here for at least a year first, only had it since June and all I've changed on the car is the clutch pedal adjustment, scraped a little paint off of it, and put this sweet Delorean sticker my friend made on the dash..for the added hp of course.

My dilemma is, if I remember the manual correctly..this car is supposed to run on 93 octane. Seeing as I can't keep myself at a reasonable pace in anything with wheels (I ran my '98 ford escort on 91 to avoid knock revving constantly at redline) but in the SF Bay..93 isn't really a thing.

I've been doing all this reading about different fuels and this and that and engines and technologies and 50+ hours on wiki and eventually it occured to me, wow, I should really run the car on at least the minimum design octane the way I drive it.

So I'm thinking the classic toluene or xylene(m?) 100oz, 25oz mineral spirits (kerosene, diesel), 3oz transmission fluid..non atf (mmo?)

I'm avoiding the easy alcohol mixtures as this isn't a flex fuel vehicle and gas in cali already has 10% ethanol wearing on the gaskets/hoses, similarly avoiding the acetone claims for that reason. I'm thinking xylene instead of toluene because I read that toluene can cause problems at high revs because it burns too slow, and it's already in gas in a higher concentration than xylene and I don't want to get too much of any one solvent going on here. Also, m-xylene? is supposed to have a higher octane which would help with the making this less difficult to do part (last paragraph)

Which brings me to the mineral spirits, or cleaning section..these are recommend over and over in the mix, but seeing as there are already tons of solvents involved, is this really in the best interest of reliability in the vehicle, does it really need that added cleaning on top of adding 100oz if solvents to fuel with solvents in it to start with?

I'm looking to just dump 1 gal of mix into each tank at the pump to approximate 93 when filling it with 91, in the best interest of the vehicle, please any thoughts, recommendation, research, trials and errors.

I'm posting in DIY because there didn't seem to be section elsewhere for fuel and I know for a fact there are a lot of other FT86's running around in my area that could benefit should this be the route to go, so it could be a useful DIY. Also..I did search before posting..didn't find anything, hope this isn't a dupe.
Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 03:00 AM   #2
CoupedUpSubie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Drives: 2013 BRZ Limited
Location: United States
Posts: 299
Thanks: 11
Thanked 118 Times in 91 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
There is absolutely nothing wrong with running 91 octane. 93 is preferred where 91 is minimum. I have the same problem here in Maine, I am just picky about what gas stations I go to.
__________________
2013 BRZ Limited 6MT
2014 Ram 1500 Quad Cab Black Ram - 8 speed with 3.21 gears
1994 Honda VFR750 - Two brothers 4-1 left side exit exhaust
1993 Honda CB750 Nighthawk
CoupedUpSubie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CoupedUpSubie For This Useful Post:
Teseo (10-26-2014)
Old 10-26-2014, 10:00 AM   #3
Dusty
Member
 
Dusty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Drives: 2013 Firestorm FR-S (traded).
Location: Prince Frederick, MD
Posts: 43
Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
I don't know where to begin. Run it on 91 octane gas from a quality gas station. I'm thinking the only downside is slightly less timing advance at WOT.
__________________
"I'm getting my turtleneck. I'm not defusing a bomb in this!"
Dusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 11:06 AM   #4
RFB
Senior Member
 
RFB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: FRS
Location: Canada
Posts: 936
Thanks: 145
Thanked 422 Times in 289 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalk View Post
Hi,

So I'm pretty new here and to the FR-S, okay that isn't true..I lurked here for at least a year first, only had it since June and all I've changed on the car is the clutch pedal adjustment, scraped a little paint off of it, and put this sweet Delorean sticker my friend made on the dash..for the added hp of course.

My dilemma is, if I remember the manual correctly..this car is supposed to run on 93 octane. Seeing as I can't keep myself at a reasonable pace in anything with wheels (I ran my '98 ford escort on 91 to avoid knock revving constantly at redline) but in the SF Bay..93 isn't really a thing.

I've been doing all this reading about different fuels and this and that and engines and technologies and 50+ hours on wiki and eventually it occured to me, wow, I should really run the car on at least the minimum design octane the way I drive it.

So I'm thinking the classic toluene or xylene(m?) 100oz, 25oz mineral spirits (kerosene, diesel), 3oz transmission fluid..non atf (mmo?)

I'm avoiding the easy alcohol mixtures as this isn't a flex fuel vehicle and gas in cali already has 10% ethanol wearing on the gaskets/hoses, similarly avoiding the acetone claims for that reason. I'm thinking xylene instead of toluene because I read that toluene can cause problems at high revs because it burns too slow, and it's already in gas in a higher concentration than xylene and I don't want to get too much of any one solvent going on here. Also, m-xylene? is supposed to have a higher octane which would help with the making this less difficult to do part (last paragraph)

Which brings me to the mineral spirits, or cleaning section..these are recommend over and over in the mix, but seeing as there are already tons of solvents involved, is this really in the best interest of reliability in the vehicle, does it really need that added cleaning on top of adding 100oz if solvents to fuel with solvents in it to start with?

I'm looking to just dump 1 gal of mix into each tank at the pump to approximate 93 when filling it with 91, in the best interest of the vehicle, please any thoughts, recommendation, research, trials and errors.

I'm posting in DIY because there didn't seem to be section elsewhere for fuel and I know for a fact there are a lot of other FT86's running around in my area that could benefit should this be the route to go, so it could be a useful DIY. Also..I did search before posting..didn't find anything, hope this isn't a dupe.
Google Torco, no fouling of plugs or cats, racers use it.



CERBERUS
RFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 05:51 PM   #5
Chalk
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2014 FRS MT Asphalt
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 12
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
In another thread I did find out that there are two places within a half hour to an hours drive that I can get 93-100..however that doesn't work well being that they are both in the wrong direction for my daily driving. Fortunately they are in a good location for two of my preferred twisties and reasonable location for one other. Leaving the remaining three high and dry.

I also found testimonials that 93 did make a very noticeable difference over 91 in a BRZ. I think the issue here being that yes, you can safely run the car on 91..no you can't WOT every day on your way home..sometimes twice a day on 91.

I'm really hoping to use something both less detrimental to the car and less detrimental to the environment..plus slightly more legal. Torco and Lucas Oil additives, first off aren't really octane boosters at all, they are anti-knock additives. They use MMT which builds up on your plugs, on your O2 sensors, and in your cat..although some have claimed this doesn't cause them any issues..are not street legal and were banned from gas for emissions.

Now, I obviously didn't buy this car to protect the environment, but what would be a good solution for the track..or for a racecar..isn't necessarily a good solution for a daily driver.

I do appreciate the input though, and having researched your opinions on this I now know a lot that I was completely ignorant to a couple of hours ago (basically I don't know how to use the thanks function for your posts)
Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 07:09 PM   #6
retoocs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: BRZ
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 168
Thanks: 2
Thanked 63 Times in 43 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
FYI, racing fuel, 100 octane, is not legal to be used on the street and they usually won't sell to you.
retoocs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2014, 10:45 PM   #7
mike the snake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Norcal
Posts: 1,592
Thanks: 1
Thanked 623 Times in 378 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
You can get 100 at Sears Point/Sonoma Raceway no problem.
mike the snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2014, 12:06 PM   #8
RFB
Senior Member
 
RFB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: FRS
Location: Canada
Posts: 936
Thanks: 145
Thanked 422 Times in 289 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalk View Post
In another thread I did find out that there are two places within a half hour to an hours drive that I can get 93-100..however that doesn't work well being that they are both in the wrong direction for my daily driving. Fortunately they are in a good location for two of my preferred twisties and reasonable location for one other. Leaving the remaining three high and dry.

I also found testimonials that 93 did make a very noticeable difference over 91 in a BRZ. I think the issue here being that yes, you can safely run the car on 91..no you can't WOT every day on your way home..sometimes twice a day on 91.

I'm really hoping to use something both less detrimental to the car and less detrimental to the environment..plus slightly more legal. Torco and Lucas Oil additives, first off aren't really octane boosters at all, they are anti-knock additives. They use MMT which builds up on your plugs, on your O2 sensors, and in your cat..although some have claimed this doesn't cause them any issues..are not street legal and were banned from gas for emissions.

Now, I obviously didn't buy this car to protect the environment, but what would be a good solution for the track..or for a racecar..isn't necessarily a good solution for a daily driver.

I do appreciate the input though, and having researched your opinions on this I now know a lot that I was completely ignorant to a couple of hours ago (basically I don't know how to use the thanks function for your posts)
Research and practice shows that Torco only changes normal black carbon deposits to an orange brown colour.
NO fouling on my cats or plugs .

I have used it with no problems for years.



CERBERUS
RFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 01:12 PM   #9
Chalk
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2014 FRS MT Asphalt
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 12
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Sears Point is actually nicely in line with another favorite road of mine, so that's perfect, thank you. Down to two.

I don't really intend to run 100 octane, more 93, that's not cheap stuff. Just want to have the car running the way it's supposed to is all since I'm always pushing it.

There seems to be a big debate everywhere I look about whether it is or isn't safe to use Torco, I can see which side of the fence you land on..but to me that's beside the point, because it's also pretty expensive and bad for emissions in the carcinogen way..which I have a moral issue with for a daily driver. Now if this was a weekend car..I wouldn't still be trying to find a way I'm more comfortable with.

Does anyone have any experience with mixing their own, or any booster based on aromatics that will raise octane 20(2) points for not too much? Really I'm thinking my solution would work, I was just hoping for someone experienced to give a greenlight..but if anyone knows how to get ahold of m-xylene/xylol at a decent price, please, I beg of you, share your knowledge.
Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 01:41 PM   #10
stugray
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: 2013 GBS BRZ Limited
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,925
Thanks: 627
Thanked 1,445 Times in 711 Posts
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by retoocs View Post
FYI, racing fuel, 100 octane, is not legal to be used on the street and they usually won't sell to you.
So full of BS....
It IS legal, and if they 'wont sell it', why is it 'for sale'?

I run only 91, rev the crap out of my car, and logs show very minimal knock correction.
However I AM at >5000 ft atl. all of the time.
That makes a difference.
stugray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 01:51 PM   #11
RFB
Senior Member
 
RFB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Drives: FRS
Location: Canada
Posts: 936
Thanks: 145
Thanked 422 Times in 289 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalk View Post
Sears Point is actually nicely in line with another favorite road of mine, so that's perfect, thank you. Down to two.

I don't really intend to run 100 octane, more 93, that's not cheap stuff. Just want to have the car running the way it's supposed to is all since I'm always pushing it.

There seems to be a big debate everywhere I look about whether it is or isn't safe to use Torco, I can see which side of the fence you land on..but to me that's beside the point, because it's also pretty expensive and bad for emissions in the carcinogen way..which I have a moral issue with for a daily driver. Now if this was a weekend car..I wouldn't still be trying to find a way I'm more comfortable with.

Does anyone have any experience with mixing their own, or any booster based on aromatics that will raise octane 20(2) points for not too much? Really I'm thinking my solution would work, I was just hoping for someone experienced to give a greenlight..but if anyone knows how to get ahold of m-xylene/xylol at a decent price, please, I beg of you, share your knowledge.
When I am forced to use Shell 91 with my 93 tune, my OFT shows knock, with TORCO, it shows the same as 93 octane (10 + ounces of Torco).

When I get 93 it has corn likker in it (nothing available ethanol free), but it seems to perform well.

When I can afford it, I use Shell 91, with 1 gallon of race gas which brings the tank up to over 93 octane (roughly 94 to 97 depending on the octane of the race gas), which is my preferred set up, as that seems to make the most ponies.



CERBERUS
RFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 07:16 PM   #12
Chalk
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2014 FRS MT Asphalt
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 12
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I'm also almost always below 5000 ft so that is good information to have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RFB View Post
When I can afford it, I use Shell 91, with 1 gallon of race gas which brings the tank up to over 93 octane (roughly 94 to 97 depending on the octane of the race gas), which is my preferred set up, as that seems to make the most ponies.
What octane rating is the race gas you use? I did a little math and I figured out that if I put 3 gallons of 100 octane in, then 10.5 gallons of 91 the fuel would have a minimum rating of 93 flat. Also, do you know the composition of the race gas you use?
Chalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 11:01 PM   #13
retoocs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: BRZ
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 168
Thanks: 2
Thanked 63 Times in 43 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stugray View Post
So full of BS....
It IS legal, and if they 'wont sell it', why is it 'for sale'?
Not BS. OP is in California. Racing fuel is illegal to use for a street vehicle being operated on the streets. If you pull up to a station with race fuel, they will not let you put it into your registered street vehicle. There are some high octane fuel that meets CARB requirements and is street legal, but this stuff isn't as good since it has all the other crap added.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/advs/advs397.pdf
retoocs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2015, 03:37 PM   #14
DAEMANO
Time Traveller
 
Join Date: May 2013
Drives: 2013 Scion FRS - Raven
Location: So Cal - Orange County
Posts: 3,705
Thanks: 9,529
Thanked 3,416 Times in 1,677 Posts
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Garage
As posted above Torco Accelerator solves all of this. When I was on regular gas, it was a godsend.
DAEMANO is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
boost, california, octane, toluene, xylene

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Octane booster sid325 Northern California 22 08-17-2014 10:18 AM
Octane Booster? Djen Forced Induction 12 11-05-2013 04:27 PM
Octane booster: 91 to 93 or higher? mike the snake Forced Induction 18 08-13-2013 08:54 PM
Octane booster... yeah, I know, I know.. silverbullet Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 10 05-07-2013 01:55 PM
Octane booster? SanDiegoFRS Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] 5 02-17-2013 01:20 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.