where does the time go? lap times and progress

[slowmow]

Hey all,

I've been track driving since 2019, and despite by best efforts to focus on fundamentals and not lap times, I often find myself getting caught up with times. When my times are up, I can't feel happy about my driving, even when I know there are mediating factors (e.g., air temp, tire wear, etc.). This issue precipitated after I had a great (fast for me) day at VIR, and the next day couldn't get anywhere close to what I had just done! And therein lies my question...

I know this is impossible to answer precisely, but what kind of time do you mentally add/subtract to account for the normal day to day (session to session) variation you expect to see in laps? Tires are brand new vs. five heat cycles versus 30? Air temp is 45F vs. 90F? Fuel tank is full vs. 1/4 full? 25 minutes into a session and the tires are greasy..? I'm not looking for anything even close to precise, but just trying to build some intuition and reasonable expectations. If you have any pearls of acquired wisdom, I'd love to hear them. Something like, "add a passenger, add 2 seconds on a two minute lap" or "I lose 3 seconds a lap on RE71Rs by the third track day"....

And the one I have the least intuition for is how the track itself changes from day to day... whether it rained all the previous week or there just was an IMSA race...for example.

Anyways, I appreciate anything you've got. Take care all.

[deca]

I'm curious to see what people have to say about this as well, as I've had similar issues. I have a hard time accepting that variables outside my control are affecting my performance, in both driving and other serious pursuits. It's hard not to feel like a slower time is simply the result of inadequate skills or performance, blaming it on setup/tires/track conditions/etc always feels like a cop out on some level.

I obviously feel that holding yourself accountable and focusing on your own ability first and foremost is the best mindset for improving, but it's easy to let it start working against you and holding you back in various ways. The mental game is real and it's hard to make the most of your time when you're frustrated.

I think that confidence and consistency can help to mitigate these issues. On my home track I have a pretty strong sense for how a good lap should feel, and if I know every corner feels correct but the time isn't adding up then something else is likely going on. If my times are off pace but I still see a great deal of consistency between them that also seems like an indication to look to tire or track condition. My last few events have actually been the first times I've really started to actively consider track condition, and it's helped to have others to talk about it with.

Like I said, I'm real interested to see what others have to say on this topic. I actually started tracking in 2019 as well, so while I'm quite comfortable at this point there's still a lot that I'm learning about the bigger picture.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Are you looking solely at laptimes? Or do you have in-car video, data acquisition, etc.?

You can drive like crap and set a fast lap in ideal conditions, fresh tires, etc. But looking at data afterwards and seeing "hey i made an improvement over the day here by braking consistently later and being smoother with my inputs or using less steering here" or whatever...seeing those little things are what's important in actually measuring progress. Your analysis has to extend beyond just laptimes. Take detailed notes during your trackday and afterwards when looking at your data. That's true all the time but especially early in the game.

I run (as in with my feet lol) the same 1 mile loop somewhat frequently. Times vary based on temperature, humidity, if I drank enough water that morning, if I drank enough water the day before, what I've eaten, etc. At first my analysis was basically "my body felt like shit and I was slow." Then it moved on to "it was hot as balls, that made it hard to run fast." Eventually I got to "drink less soda you dummy and maybe you can run faster all the time." Some things are outside of my control, some things aren't. Keeping track and taking notes on the things I can control and actually improve has made me a faster and more consistent runner in all conditions.

- Andrew

[slowmow]

Thanks Andrew. Your advice is much appreciated - I try to focus on mechanics and not outcomes, but often very quickly lose focus and start seeking "faster laps" despite my intention to spend a session on brake release, or a session on rolling more mid-corner speed, etc.

I do have a Garmin Catalyst and use OBD/Track Addict/external GPS to get some other basic data, and its been helpful to evaluate the corner by corner performance. Where I've run into trouble when trying to focus on stuff like corner Vmin - as tires heat up or wear down I feel that change in grip, adjust driving, and maybe I'm 2mph down in Vmin. But then I struggle to evaluate whether some/all of that change in speed is tire, and what part of it is me. That was the genesis of my question - trying to get a rough magnitude for the variation you can expect without changes in quality of driving. But maybe that is just not possible... too many variables... you can only focus on what you are doing?

In a way, the Catalyst (which I generally love) may be reinforcing the wrong thinking - it constantly compares your performance to the best you've ever done, which of course is tire/track/weather/traffic dependent. I've just recently heard of people using a workaround to "reset" its comparisons to a single day or session for just this reason. Might be wise.

Anyways, thanks to both for the responses. And Andrew your running example is apt, and reminds me of conversations with the wife when she wasn't happy with a triathlon time, and I was saying "there was a 20mph headwind! You can't expect to be at your normal pace!"... I guess I should be applying the same logic!

[MX-5RACER]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Are you looking solely at laptimes? Or do you have in-car video, data acquisition, etc.?

You can drive like crap and set a fast lap in ideal conditions, fresh tires, etc. But looking at data afterwards and seeing "hey i made an improvement over the day here by braking consistently later and being smoother with my inputs or using less steering here" or whatever...seeing those little things are what's important in actually measuring progress. Your analysis has to extend beyond just laptimes. Take detailed notes during your trackday and afterwards when looking at your data. That's true all the time but especially early in the game.

I run (as in with my feet lol) the same 1 mile loop somewhat frequently. Times vary based on temperature, humidity, if I drank enough water that morning, if I drank enough water the day before, what I've eaten, etc. At first my analysis was basically "my body felt like shit and I was slow." Then it moved on to "it was hot as balls, that made it hard to run fast." Eventually I got to "drink less soda you dummy and maybe you can run faster all the time." Some things are outside of my control, some things aren't. Keeping track and taking notes on the things I can control and actually improve has made me a faster and more consistent runner in all conditions.

- Andrew

Great comments Andrew.

I will say that without data analysis, laptimes are very hard to use as a judge of driving performance from day to day. Data like sustained cornering G's, entry and exit speeds all help to paint the picture of driver performance. Remember if you miss every apex, by even a little bit, it will have a big impact on the laptime. What you can do to try and fill in some of the blanks is get some good data and look at it after the event with notes taken during the event. For instance, noting your sustained G's are way lower on day two doesn't mean much if day two was wet. Taking notes on conditions and car set-up are a key to making consistent driver evaluations.

[MX-5RACER]

Slowmow, have you exported your data to something like Excel? When I was instructing and running track days, I would export the data to Excel and create a time vs speed line graph. When you look at the speed vs time, you can see braking and acceleration curves easier. For example, a correct brake curve would be a line going from a left to right diagonal to a sharp speed drop. If the brake curve looks more like a parabola (Rounded off), you are probably braking too early or too much. I caution you that if you are tailbraking into a corner, the brake curve will be more rounded.

I wish I had access to my old files on this PC so I could post a picture of a graph and show you.

Something like this:

[NoHaveMSG]

I just recently went through this. Couldn't figure out where my time went and finished out the day very unsatisfied. I still set a PB, just not the pace I was expecting. Last weekend I really had to reset my mindset on it and just look at the delta's for the day and focus on improving on the day without thinking about my previous times from the past. It was always in the back of my mind, but it did help. My real issue is I only did one track day last year due to covid and blowing an engine. My footwork is pretty bad but is slowly coming back.

[Icecreamtruk]

Well, what you are asking for is impossible. You cant put a number to those variable, its all guesses. If you trully are concerned about driving better and improving, I would recommend that you put your laptimer in a place where you cannot see it, and only analyse data after the fact. Try to see if you drove better or worse before looking at the data, try to see if you know which lap was your fastest before looking at the data.

Once you understand what makes a car go fast around a track, you wont need a laptimer to know if you drove well or not. You'll extract as much performance as you can, and you'll know where you left time on the table and what to do to improve. I'd say you arent there yet.

[gen3v8]

I have had the same lap time experiences. The one thing I looked at was how many laps were still quick and i noticed a bunching of my times, all good, all close but not PBs.

[new2subaru]

Get instruction and lots of it. I usually run 3-4 track days and then have an instructor in my car. I do a few more and get instruction again. It's a great way to practice what you've learned and be more consistent.