Thoughts on tipping?

[LOLS2K]

Question for the waiters/servers: Does level of service provided depend on who you're serving? Specifically appearance. Better service to the guy in buttoned up shirt vs cargo shorts and flip flops?

[extrashaky]

I end up eating in restaurants alone a lot because I'm traveling for business on an expense account. If I'm by myself, I usually tip 20%-30% because I know I'm taking up a table that would bring more if it went to a couple or family. If I'm with other people, I start at 15% and subtract for bad service and add for good service.

I have a few simple rules for tipping. First and foremost is that you had better keep my drink filled, especially if you're serving me something spicy. If there's an issue with the food, I try to figure out whether it's the server's fault or a problem in the kitchen. For example, is it cold because the server didn't bring it out immediately? Is the food bad because the cook just doesn't know what the hell he's doing? I don't penalize the server for shitty food.

Timeliness of service also depends on how busy they are. Was the place half empty, but the server disappeared for fifteen minutes? Smaller tip. Was the place slammed and understaffed? I have tipped 50% to a waitress who was busting her ass and then complained to the manager that they obviously didn't have enough people and were killing their good servers.

At buffets I tip $2. Sorry, if your only job is to keep my drink refilled, that's not worth 15%.

Originally Posted by Cole

Though, whenever I give them my order, and they don't write it down, I remember that. If ANYTHING in that order is wrong, I'm automatically tipping less, regardless of how the service is. If you can't get orders right because you don't feel like writing them down, you're obviously bad at your job and a low tip should be a reminder that you shouldn't do things off memory.

It's not that they "don't feel like writing them down." At most high end restaurants, servers are not allowed to write anything down. It's considered gauche. At less fancy places, servers will sometimes forego the order pad either because they are trying to train their memory to be able to get a job at a higher end restaurant, or because they are trying to give you a higher end experience. I don't mind if they get something wrong in that situation (because everybody has to start somewhere), as long as they make it right.

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

I also think tipping is bullshit because line cooks generally work their asses off, more so than some of the servers I see, and typically don't make half of what a server makes in terms of tipout or overall pay.

Then buy some decent clothes and get out there on the floor and wait tables. Jobs are not paid by how hard you work. They're paid by their economic value. If you don't like what you're being paid, get a job with an economic value that makes you happier.

Originally Posted by LOLS2K

Question for the waiters/servers: Does level of service provided depend on who you're serving? Specifically appearance. Better service to the guy in buttoned up shirt vs cargo shorts and flip flops?

I'm not a server but I see servers and hear them talk about how they don't usually like tables with kids (12-18) or sometimes of certain races for this reason. They'll spend more time with the adults or the people who will give them more money.

Same for lots of other professions too, have two people walk into a diamond store, one in jeans and one in a suit, guess who employees will flock to.

So for the most part yes.

[pushrod]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Then buy some decent clothes and get out there on the floor and wait tables. Jobs are not paid by how hard you work. They're paid by their economic value. If you don't like what you're being paid, get a job with an economic value that makes you happier.

This sounds like the American Dream. You know, that thing that doesn't exist.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

It's not that they "don't feel like writing them down." At most high end restaurants, servers are not allowed to write anything down. It's considered gauche. At less fancy places, servers will sometimes forego the order pad either because they are trying to train their memory to be able to get a job at a higher end restaurant, or because they are trying to give you a higher end experience. I don't mind if they get something wrong in that situation (because everybody has to start somewhere), as long as they make it right.

I eat out for 90% of my meals March to November. I've seen good service and bad. I honestly couldn't give a fuck if a server is trying to train their memory or if they work at a place so fancy I have to wear a suit to go to.

Bottom line is, if you fuck my order up, your tip will reflect that. I have zero sympathy for wait staff. Like you said, they should go and get some fancy clothes and apply at a bank if they're not happy with a low tip when they screw up.

Mind you, I never pay for my meals since I eat a free continental breakfast at the hotel, then spend well below my per diem on meals. If a server messes up and I end up tipping less, that's just more money in my pocket that I'm not being taxed for. Why should I excuse a wait(er/ess) for making a mistake because they're trying to train their memory, or because their employer doesn't allow them to write something down? By that logic, when I mess up on a survey I'm doing for a client and I'm new to that type of survey, they should still be paying my company for me to go out there and do it again, instead of my company eating the cost and sending me out to do it again.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by pushrod

This sounds like the American Dream. You know, that thing that doesn't exist.

Not sure if this is sarcasm.

My first job in television news, I made $18,000. I didn't like that salary. So I busted my ass for two years and got my next job for $25K. Then the next one six months later for $33K. Overall I tripled my salary in ten years in the business, but I realized that I would soon cap out and not go much higher no matter how hard I worked, because that's how much the job was worth on the market.

So I went back to school, sat for the CPA exam and reset my upper limit. I traded work that was physically demanding for a job that was much more lucrative. I worked "harder" in television but was actually making the same salary in my first accounting job as in my last television job.

When I returned to school, I didn't go to an Ivy League college. I went to an urban state school. Around 30% to 40% of my classmates were from predominantly poor, African-American areas of town. One guy I knew went to one of the worst, most violent high schools in my city, but he had a job with Deloitte waiting for him when he graduated. If he's still there five years later, he's making at least $70K per year even if he's struggling along as a low performer.

So don't tell me the American dream doesn't exist. If you don't like your circumstances, change them. It's not easy. But life isn't "fair" either, and complaining about how much other people make doesn't raise your own value in the marketplace in the slightest.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Then buy some decent clothes and get out there on the floor and wait tables. Jobs are not paid by how hard you work. They're paid by their economic value. If you don't like what you're being paid, get a job with an economic value that makes you happier.

Clearly you've never worked in a restaurant. Once you're in the Back of House, getting to the Front of House is near impossible. I've been in it for 5 years and the only reason I stay is because I'm in my final year of university, and once I'm done I will start a career.

But I shouldn't have to justify my current job to some rando who thinks it's easy to just pick up and go without knowing one's life.

I also don't think calling out the restaurant industry for unequal tipouts requires one to justify themselves.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

I also don't think calling out the restaurant industry for unequal tipouts requires one to justify themselves.

Calling out the restaurant industry for unequal tipouts just demonstrates a lack of understanding of economics.

Like any product or service, labor is worth what other people (employers) are willing to pay for it based on the supply of labor and the demand for it. If you're not making as much as waiters, it's because there is enough of a supply of line cooks to fill the demand at that price. If you want to make more money, you either have to reduce supply by killing off other line cooks, increase demand by somehow causing more restaurants to open, or move to another job that is in higher demand or shorter supply. The equilibrium price (where supply = demand) is higher for waiters than it is for line cooks, so you will make less money.

If you think you can remedy the situation by enforcing tip sharing with the wait staff and kitchen staff, you're wrong. If you reduce the waiters' compensation, the best of them will go elsewhere, and the restaurant will experience more difficulty in filling the empty positions. The remaining waiters will have to work harder. The overall level of service will go down, which will result in a decline in customers and a decline in tip amount by the customers who continue to show up. Meanwhile, because of the decline in customers, the restaurant will have to look for places to cut costs. Since you're now making tips, they can cut your base salary just like the waiters. So you'll end up making no more money than before, and possibly less because you'll be even more at the mercy of market forces than when the employer was having to guess at your value.

As for moving from the kitchen to the front, it's no more difficult than any other career change. The biggest impediments are the excuses people make for not doing it.

[GeorgeJFrick]

I worked in retail for three years; shit happens all the damn time. 10% for bad service, 20% for more than acceptable service. We live in an area with a lot of places to go, so a pattern of bad or barely acceptable service just means we'll stop eating there. Restaurants should stop this crap and grow up.

I've seen too many assholes put money under an upside down glass of water, or rip a $10 in half and leave one half (WTF?!?!).

Generally, we don't eat at corporate places; there are plenty of awesome small-business restaurants where the staff are usually paid really well. We don't worry about bad service there.

If you go to applebees or denny's you're getting someone who is treated like shit all day and expecting them to grin, bear it, and act like you aren't ordering a frozen steak.

People don't show up, people fuck each other ("Is this without onions?!? - Yeah, it's without onions!?!?!", "What the fuck is my waitress doing, I said no onions!").

Tipping will always be a problem, and even more at lower end places. As mentioned by others, consider it part of the cost or stay home. The american dream isn't dead, but there is a fast pass. Try to tip fairly and be cool to other people. Some of the angry posts here about "get another job if you don't like it"; that is fucked up.

How often are people even remotely nice to their waiters/cashiers/etc. It's not a big deal to say good morning, thanks, have a great day, etc.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Calling out the restaurant industry for unequal tipouts just demonstrates a lack of understanding of economics.

Like any product or service, labor is worth what other people (employers) are willing to pay for it based on the supply of labor and the demand for it. If you're not making as much as waiters, it's because there is enough of a supply of line cooks to fill the demand at that price. If you want to make more money, you either have to reduce supply by killing off other line cooks, increase demand by somehow causing more restaurants to open, or move to another job that is in higher demand or shorter supply. The equilibrium price (where supply = demand) is higher for waiters than it is for line cooks, so you will make less money.

If you think you can remedy the situation by enforcing tip sharing with the wait staff and kitchen staff, you're wrong. If you reduce the waiters' compensation, the best of them will go elsewhere, and the restaurant will experience more difficulty in filling the empty positions. The remaining waiters will have to work harder. The overall level of service will go down, which will result in a decline in customers and a decline in tip amount by the customers who continue to show up. Meanwhile, because of the decline in customers, the restaurant will have to look for places to cut costs. Since you're now making tips, they can cut your base salary just like the waiters. So you'll end up making no more money than before, and possibly less because you'll be even more at the mercy of market forces than when the employer was having to guess at your value.

As for moving from the kitchen to the front, it's no more difficult than any other career change. The biggest impediments are the excuses people make for not doing it.

Yep, nothing to see here just someone who has never worked in a restaurant pretending to be Tai Lopez with advice...

The ignorance is unbearable. And then he brought up economics and I died of laughter even harder than I already am.

You are the bearer of all knowledge, Sir, don't let anyone crush your dreams or tell you otherwise. Have a good night!

[radroach]

Here's my guide, rate:

coffee shop $2.00 coffee - .25 cent tip

taco, burrito, sandwhich place = $.50-$1.00 tip

waffle house, bar, or hipster pub - $2-4

nice restaurant w/ drinks - at least $5-10 for myself

pizza delivery - $4-5

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

Yep, nothing to see here just someone who has never worked in a restaurant pretending to be Tai Lopez with advice...

The ignorance is unbearable. And then he brought up economics and I died of laughter even harder than I already am.

You are the bearer of all knowledge, Sir, don't let anyone crush your dreams or tell you otherwise. Have a good night!

Wait, I don't understand. I've worked in both sides of the restaurant, retail, service, etc. I can go back and read again but @extrashaky pretty much makes sense. With what, specifically, do you disagree?

You're in college and confirmed his point exactly, that once you graduate you'll embark on your career. You've chosen a profession that pays better.

If it's tough getting from the back of the house to the front, take a position at the front of a different house. That's just how it works.

[Pekingduck]

If it a cheap price meal like $10then I tip around 15-20% because the server end up with 1.50-2 dollar. But I think it ridiculous when it like $50 plus a head I top 10 percent, because after a certain point the server get paid to much for their services. Let say you go to dinner with your ssignificant other and the bill $150, should the waiter get 22-30 dollar similar services if the meal was $25... I think after a certain price point those rules don't apply. I used to be a waiter and I was taking home 180 dollar with my wages for 5 hours of work.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

I worked in retail for three years; shit happens all the damn time. 10% for bad service, 20% for more than acceptable service. We live in an area with a lot of places to go, so a pattern of bad or barely acceptable service just means we'll stop eating there. Restaurants should stop this crap and grow up.

I've seen too many assholes put money under an upside down glass of water, or rip a $10 in half and leave one half (WTF?!?!).

Generally, we don't eat at corporate places; there are plenty of awesome small-business restaurants where the staff are usually paid really well. We don't worry about bad service there.

If you go to applebees or denny's you're getting someone who is treated like shit all day and expecting them to grin, bear it, and act like you aren't ordering a frozen steak.

People don't show up, people fuck each other ("Is this without onions?!? - Yeah, it's without onions!?!?!", "What the fuck is my waitress doing, I said no onions!").

Tipping will always be a problem, and even more at lower end places. As mentioned by others, consider it part of the cost or stay home. The american dream isn't dead, but there is a fast pass. Try to tip fairly and be cool to other people. Some of the angry posts here about "get another job if you don't like it"; that is fucked up.

How often are people even remotely nice to their waiters/cashiers/etc. It's not a big deal to say good morning, thanks, have a great day, etc.

I was saying "right on!" for the most part but respectfully disagree with the part I emboldened. I don't think it's angry as much as brutally honest. I've been up, down, fortunately steadily up for many years now, but through it all, never a victim. It's a cruel world. All we can do is do our best to, how does it go? "Be the change we want to see." ...something like that.