Frs vs s2000

[epoch707]

Originally Posted by hamlet

I love my Ap1. But it was starting to show the effects of age, chassis flex, rattles. And ofcourse I could learn to drive better, I was simply comparing cars

Chassis flex? wtf, you must be dreaming. the s2000 chassis is very stiff, even if pushed to the limit. If you are seriously racing the car then of course you must add reinforcement.

[ST185RC]

Originally Posted by epoch707

Chassis flex? wtf, you must be dreaming. the s2000 chassis is very stiff, even if pushed to the limit. If you are seriously racing the car then of course you must add reinforcement.

Any car chassis will flex over time regardless of how rigid it is when it leaves the factory floor. His AP1 is at least 10 years old as I'm not sure what M-Y he has for his car. He is saying that over time it's starting to flex more with metal fatiguing.

Please think a little deeper than bench racing....

[epoch707]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

Any car chassis will flex over time regardless of how rigid it is when it leaves the factory floor. His AP1 is at least 10 years old as I'm not sure what M-Y he has for his car. He is saying that over time it's starting to flex more with metal fatiguing.

Please think a little deeper than bench racing....

watch the youtube video I posted:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGj3oC-wPF0"]Spoon - Type One Interview: S2000 - Type R Rigid Collar Gusset Plate - YouTube[/ame]

Spoon welds reinforcement plates and new subframes on its s2000 to withstand endurance races. Once reinforced, they are good for a 100 years as Tatsuru Ichishima says (founder of spoon and type one).

I don't think some dude's ap1 will have chassis flex because of racing, nor his cornering G's exceeding 1.xx. Daily driving, no chassis flex, more like rust and worn down bushings. Don't call it chassis flex, call it rust and worn down bushings buddy...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by epoch707

watch the youtube video I posted:

Spoon welds reinforcement plates and new subframes on its s2000 to withstand endurance races. Once reinforced, they are good for a 100 years as Tatsuru Ichishima says (founder of spoon and type one).

I don't think some dude's ap1 will have chassis flex because of racing, nor his cornering G's exceeding 1.xx. Daily driving, no chassis flex, more like rust and worn down bushings. Don't call it chassis flex, call it rust and worn down bushings buddy...

you can weld reinforcements to an frs too. its not something that is unique to the s2k so it doesnt hold weight in this conversation imo.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

Any car chassis will flex over time regardless of how rigid it is when it leaves the factory floor. His AP1 is at least 10 years old as I'm not sure what M-Y he has for his car. He is saying that over time it's starting to flex more with metal fatiguing.

Please think a little deeper than bench racing....

I don't think so. You know there at DC 3 aircraft still flying and flexing away....

A closed coupe will not suffer significant metal fatigue in decades of use. Mild steel is very resistant to fatigue.

Open mild steel cars are known to suffer from several structure weakness unless built as a tub. Can't be done with conventional door cut outs. Building a durable open top mild steel car is difficult. Add a metal roof and the problem is solved, permanently.

[hmong337]

Spoon is full of shit.

[iceman666]

As an owner of an 2001 S2000 (with 37K miles) and a 2013 BRZ (purchased to replace my Prelude daily driver), I would say the following:

1. If you want one of the best pure sports cars on the market over the last 15 years (for under $25K) and/or want a car for track purposes, find a used S2K with low miles and enjoy the experience (you will not regret it).

2. However, if you plan on using this car as your daily driver, need a bit of extra storage space (bookshelf back seat comes in handy) and/or you live in the northeast the BRZ is very good alternative.

I actually purchased my S2K inspite of it being a convertible (with the goal of buying the hardtop). Given the limited use per year, I never purchased the OEM hard top (was never truly needed) and only purchased a fiberglass hardtop for track events.

As indicated in the other posts, both cars are similar in a lot of ways (with the BRZ being more user friendly as a daily driver). In terms of track use, I will disagree with a number of people on forum. The S2000 is a great track car (I've done multiple track events at Limerock and NJ Motorsports Park). With fresh tires (I still use SO2s), and proper heat in the tires, and a full tank of gas, the S2000 is not spin happy. Its very planted and drives like its on rails (unless you get your turn-in way wrong).

Both cars have their +'s and -'s, you can't go wrong either way. . . I'm just glad I own both.

[iceman666]

Also, in terms of the S2K looking "dated", beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That said, the front bumber on the 00' to '03 models does look a bit dated.

When I bought my S2K in November 2000, it looked great. . . When Honda revised the front bumber for 2004 forward (sharper look), my older bumper looked dated. I replaced my front bumber / grill in 2006 for the newer look and thought my S2K has looked as modern as most new cars on the road ever since.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by iceman666

I actually purchased my S2K inspite of it being a convertible (with the goal of buying the hardtop). Given the limited use per year, I never purchased the OEM hard top (was never truly needed) and only purchased a fiberglass hardtop for track events.

Have you been able to get away with just a hardtop for the track, or do you pass broomstick as well?

[iceman666]

The S2000 passes the "brookstick" test as well. A number of owners have run SCDA events at Limerock and NJMP without a hardtop, as the factory rollbars are fixed and (slightly) above the helmet height.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by iceman666

The S2000 passes the "brookstick" test as well. A number of owners have run SCDA events at Limerock and NJMP without a hardtop, as the factory rollbars are fixed and (slightly) above the helmet height.

Out of curiosity, how tall are you?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by iceman666

The S2000 passes the "brookstick" test as well. A number of owners have run SCDA events at Limerock and NJMP without a hardtop, as the factory rollbars are fixed and (slightly) above the helmet height.

thats not how that works. cars dont pass broomstick tests. drivers do. besides, a hardtop isnt a piece of safety equipment at all. another issue is that i think you are supposed to have a harness when using a convertible and that usually means running a racing seat so the test shouldnt be much of an issue in the first place.

[regal]

When you buy a 10 yo S2k you potentially get a complex double wishbone suspension with a bunch of dried-out bushings. They are difficult to replace without a press , I was quoted over $2k to rebuild the suspension with OE rubber that didn't include new struts and springs.

Plus the hard tops are difficult and expensive to obtain.

So low milage S2k $16k + rebuilt suspension $3k + hard top $3k = at least $22k for a car you need to pay for in cash. With interest rates low the FRS is just the better deal.

So for a daily driver I think the FRS is a better choice but in comparison to the S2k the FRS has a less desirable engine. I'd be more satisfied without the torque dip and the OE tune but those issues are fixable now.

The other thing is the twins are selling world wide better than the S2k ever did, so likely we will see low replacement parts cost in a few years. These should be fairly easy on the budget dd's.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by iceman666

The S2000 passes the "brookstick" test as well. A number of owners have run SCDA events at Limerock and NJMP without a hardtop, as the factory rollbars are fixed and (slightly) above the helmet height.

No way a driver over 5'2" is passing the broomstick test with the stock S2000 roll hoops. Many organizations don't recognize factory S2000/Boxster/MX-5 roll hoops anyway. First thing I did with my S2000 was to install a HardDog roll bar for track events.