Considering purchase for teenager

[CarJunkie]

Hello, I am new here so I might as well introduce myself and ask a question. I am a true CarJunkie, and want my kids to be also.
　
I do not yet have one of these great cars, but I am seriously considering getting one and would like some input from those who are using these cars for autocross and track, hence posting in this sub-form.
　
A little history:
My previous fun cars have included a '99 Civic Si which was heavily modified. That got replaced by a 2005 WRX STi, then a 2005 Mazda Rx8, then my current 2011 BMW 1M which I have had since new. I auto cross a few times per year, but my real love is track days. The Subaru got sway bars and a typhoon intake, but otherwise stayed stock. The Rx8 stayed completely stock except brake pads for track days. Once my 1M was out of warranty, I got bit by the modification bug and have done full exhaust, tune, coilover, front sway bar, camber adjustment plates with proper alignment, dedicated track wheels with R-compound tires.
　
My oldest just got his driver's license in October of last year. I wanted him to learn how to drive a standard, but the only manual I owned when he got his permit was the 1M, which I was not going to let him learn with. I bought 1986 (e30) BMW 325e for that purpose, and that has allowed him to learn to drive a stick and something that you cannot get in much trouble with. It is a pretty cool car, but has had a lot of little issues that we are slowly working our way through. It is fine for street use, and we did an autocross for the first time this past weekend, but I definitely would not trust it for a track day. He daily drives my wife's old Prius, LOL.
　
Despite the e30 being slow, he had a blast at the autocross and would love to do it again. I think he would like to have a better chance of being competitive. In addition, my wife came out to watch the afternoon and said something to me that I never thought I would hear come out of her mouth. "Maybe he would like to do a track day with you."
　
That is my dilemma. I would definitely not trust the e30 for a track day, and am debating whether I would let him drive the 1M, which is essentially non-replaceable at this point. I had already given consideration to what kind of car I would want to get if he liked autocross and track days and would do them with me. I am not a fan of open top cars especially for novices, so Miatas are out. In my opinion, the FRS/BRZ/86 platform is the best option.
　
I would plan to keep it set up to be in stock class for auto cross. I would love to get some input from you guys on whether you think this car is appropriate for a 16-year-old to learn to race with. I would probably try to get something 4 to 5 years old with a moderate amount of mileage and out of warranty, and it seems like the prices are pretty reasonable. I have already gleaned from reading several threads here that it would be best to avoid the 2013 model year, so I would probably be looking for 2014 or newer with more than 50,000 miles and in decent condition. Are there any other particular areas that I should pay attention to when looking at a potential car? Are there any weak spots that would need to be addressed before putting an older car onto the track? How tail happy is it in stock form? I mainly ask that because I would probably replace BOTH the Prius and e30, so this would be his daily also. We have mild winters, but do get occasional snow.
　
I should also mention that I generally do my own work. Are these cars pretty easy to work on without highly specialized tools or a dedicated computer?

I know that's long. Thanks for reading!

[bcj]

Keeping it stock, you wouldn't need a computer. A bluetooth OBDMII reader and Torque would do to see what's happening if you want to.

Not tail happy unless you kick it on purpose. Having some restraint, it doesn't do it by itself.

Don't think there are special tools involved until you get deep into the internals. Most stuff is basic sockets and wrenches. If you have a shop, shouldn't be hard.

Tires tires tires for the conditions. Get spare wheels and snow tires for the winter.
Over in Seattle, it's even more mild. I don't have snows, but I'm retired and I just don't go out.
When I had to be somewhere every day, I still had snow tires anyway.

[Takumi788]

Track day instructor and 2013 FRS track car owner here. I will try to keep my thoughts in bullet format so this post stays relatively short and on point. Here is what I thought of quickly.

The twins can make for a great track/daily.

I own a 2013 with 50k miles, at least 20k are track miles with no issues. However I do recommend a 2015+ just so you dont have to deal with first production year issues.

The STX autocross class allows for a lot of fun modifications that don't impede daily drive-ability. The twins are very competitive in this class and there is an enormous thread on STX in this forum. Stock class will also be fun.

Overall the twins are a very safe car in case the worse happens.

In stock form they do tend to get a little tail happy but nothing that isn't to be expected from a rwd platform and nothing the traction control can't handle. Highly recommend keeping the traction control on for beginners. If it starts getting annoying, turn the VSC off for to make it more tolerable.

Look for leaking seals near the back passenger side and the front cover of the engine. The rear leak is an easy fix, use it to talk down the price, the front is a pain, avoid purchase or have it fixed by a Subaru tech.

It would be good to know what coil packs the perspective car has. Triangular plug style are good. flat plugs are 2013-2014ish spec and tend to over heat easily with continued track use. More info in other threads here if I am not clear.

If you do get a 2012-2013 make sure the valve spring recall has been successfully completed. Recall +3000 miles is a safe indicator that it was done correctly.

As for bringing him to the track. Just make sure he doesn't get to cocky and you should be good.

[bcj]

Not aware of any 2014 models with the valve spring recall.
It was only the early run 2012 and first few months of 2013.

[Takumi788]

Originally Posted by bcj

Not aware of any 2014 models with the valve spring recall.
It was only the early run 2012 and first few months of 2013.

Thanks - Fixed

[Mr.ac]

Yes these cars are great for playing around.
Yes they are somewhat easy to work on.

Would I recommend it to a teenager? No.

You have the e30, just swap a straight 6 in there. That solves the lack of power. Or just buy a newer BMW

[evomike]

why not buy a S50 swap and do the swap with him, teach him how to work on cars and can have your own time together while doing so. If you do not want to go that far I would say just get him into a good E36 M3 instead of the E30. I will say do not let him drive the 1M they are appreciating way too fast for a kid to have a mistake with.

[Racecomp Engineering]

For a 16 year old, I would consider 1 on 1 professional driving instruction if they want to do track days.

- Andrew

[CarJunkie]

Some great responses above, thanks all. I have a shop with a lift, although a drivetrain swap is not something I would do myself. The e30 is a 4door, and has too many little issues to mention to be worth salvaging. I would probably sell it or give it to my brother.

I should clarify, he would be doing HPDE with professional instruction. Even if they signed him off to drive solo, I would not let him truly drive solo until he is 18, regardless of what he was driving.

I should also clarify that my 1M has been autocrossed and tracked for years, and it shows. I’m not that guy who shines it for shows and puts painters tape all over it to prevent cone and marble marks. I give it a good finish refresh once a year and drive the snot out it. I will never sell it so I don’t care what they are “worth” to collectors who will never appreciate the drive. With traction control on, and an instructor in the seat next to him, he would be safer than on the street. Two drivers at the track will definitely eat up consumables, which are pretty expensive on that car, and I think he will learn more in a momentum car.

I am curious how an e36 M3 would be safer. That would certainly have more reliability issues. (I’m a BMW guy myself, but I’m not a fanboi, LOL)

[Mr.ac]

Sounds like you should get that e36. I would.
As for safety, just get life insurance. If your going to go there is nothing you could do.
If you are worried about getting hurt then don't do said activity. Then again you'll have better odds on a track than on the street.

[14stu]

I've instructed 16 year olds on track in FRS/BRZ, they make great track cars and are excellent to learn with.

I'd recommend looking for a '15 or '16 and setting it up for SSC. It's a spec class so you don't go overboard with parts and don't feel like you cheaped out on anything. They also make great track cars (I recommend an oil cooler for serious track use or if you live in a hot climate). SSC cars are just as comfortable as stock on the street with the exception of if you go with a loud exhaust (you can do a catback in the class and that's usually a turn down straight pipe which can get loud, but you're not losing much just sticking with the stock setup).

Like mentioned before, the 2013's have a few first year problems and the 2014 have the coilpack issues (at least most of the 2014's). I've got 60k miles on my 2014 BRZ with over 250 autocrosses and 80 trackdays.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

Sounds like you should get that e36. I would.
As for safety, just get life insurance. If your going to go there is nothing you could do.
If you are worried about getting hurt then don't do said activity. Then again you'll have better odds on a track than on the street.

Not sure where you are coming from. I am not concerned about either of us dying on the track. Your last sentence is consistent with what I had said about safety on track with instructor versus driving on the street where we are surrounded by idiots. I think we are in agreement on those points, but I don't think you recognize that.





A car with less power is a better learning tool for a novice, which is the main reason I don't want him learning with a 3300lb car making 450tq/380hp to the wheels. My e30 has numerous small issues that make it unreliable for HPDE, so I am looking for a better, newer, more reliable car, not a more powerful car for him. You seem to think I need a slightly less old BMW or a motor swapped BMW, which excludes you as a useful source of information. I don't need to be convinced to buy life insurance, or to stop going to the track.


I am about ready to buy one of these for a specific purpose, which is why I posted this question in this subforum.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by 14stu

I've instructed 16 year olds on track in FRS/BRZ, they make great track cars and are excellent to learn with.

I'd recommend looking for a '15 or '16 and setting it up for SSC. It's a spec class so you don't go overboard with parts and don't feel like you cheaped out on anything. They also make great track cars (I recommend an oil cooler for serious track use or if you live in a hot climate). SSC cars are just as comfortable as stock on the street with the exception of if you go with a loud exhaust (you can do a catback in the class and that's usually a turn down straight pipe which can get loud, but you're not losing much just sticking with the stock setup).

Like mentioned before, the 2013's have a few first year problems and the 2014 have the coilpack issues (at least most of the 2014's). I've got 60k miles on my 2014 BRZ with over 250 autocrosses and 80 trackdays.

When the plugs/coils fail, can they be replaced with the updated parts from later years, or are they incompatible? Would that move the car out of stock class?


I get that the car would be better with a build to ST or SSC, but for autocross, I think newbies still learn better in a stock car. Once you build into a class, you really need to do everything allowed in that class to be competitive, and it doesn't change the flesh and bones sitting in the driver's seat. Its already a stretch to consider buying him a car like this, let alone prepping it beyond the basic necessities for track reliability.

[Leonardo]

Your son is lucky.

I hope he also makes good choices.






I have a 2013 with 81k miles. I had the engine recall work done successfully under warranty and replaced coil pack #1 for $85.00 myself. (Coil packs being replaced shouldn't change any classification) Other than that, its been hassle free for 7 years.



"Special" tools I bought to work on this car:

Pass through socket set - for installing lowering springs without letting the shaft of the strut spin.

36mm axle nut socket - for the axle nut

ball joint separator - works great to install extended studs, etc...