Knock fix with Australian Fuel 98/100 RON

[Fizz]

Thanks Just to clarify, the log I posted above was from the standard OTS v1.55 tune....not the altered 98RON tune as I haven't loaded yours yet.

Anyhow, I gather that my engine is seeing some knock hence the drop in IAM yes? How much knock is the engine actually seeing, and are the "corrections" the ECU is making pulling more timing than necessary (as you mentioned in your first post)? Basically is this what's happening in my case as well?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Fizz

Thanks Just to clarify, the log I posted above was from the standard OTS v1.55 tune....not the altered 98RON tune as I haven't loaded yours yet.

Anyhow, I gather that my engine is seeing some knock hence the drop in IAM yes? How much knock is the engine actually seeing, and are the "corrections" the ECU is making pulling more timing than necessary (as you mentioned in your first post)? Basically is this what's happening in my case as well?

Arrrrhhhh

That makes more sense it looked pretty bad if you had already loaded my ROM

Yes I found if you pull about half or sometimes less than half of what the ecu pulls (knock correction value) it will generally correct the knock in that area.

Once you IAM has dropped it takes timing from entire rpm/load range.

Your fuel trim LTFT does seem high, do you have intake/exhaust mods mods ??

[Fizz]

Only a drop-in filter, and a motiv front pipe with hfc.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Fizz

Only a drop-in filter, and a motiv front pipe with hfc.

You could ask shiv about running the EL header stage 2 tune, its for catless headers but it appears hfc (secondary cat) has similar effect ,but check with shiv.

[Fizz]

Originally Posted by steve99

You could ask shiv about running the EL header stage 2 tune, its for catless headers but it appears hfc (secondary cat) has similar effect ,but check with shiv.

I've sent @shiv@vishnu a couple of logs via PM asking for advice....waiting for this reply on best course of action. Anyway I took another (long) data log this morning and the IAM is even worse...dropping as low as 0.5! http://datazap.me/u/fizz/data-loggin...log=0&data=1-9

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Fizz

I've sent @shiv@vishnu a couple of logs via PM asking for advice....waiting for this reply on best course of action. Anyway I took another (long) data log this morning and the IAM is even worse...dropping as low as 0.5! http://datazap.me/u/fizz/data-loggin...log=0&data=1-9

If you load my map for 98rON should sort the IAM drop out, you also get high RPM knock as well on 98 with "standard" map

[Fizz]

Originally Posted by steve99

If you load my map for 98rON should sort the IAM drop out, you also get high RPM knock as well on 98 with "standard" map

I've saved your map....but haven't uploaded it to my car yet. Waiting for Shiv to respond first. By the way...when you said "standard map" you're referring to the standard canned v1.5x map yes?

I can't believe the 98 RON we get is so piss poor? I thought Shiv's v1.5x maps were all tuned for 91AKI, so anyone running 93AKI (or comparable) should not see as much knock.....but obviously not?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Fizz

I've saved your map....but haven't uploaded it to my car yet. Waiting for Shiv to respond first. By the way...when you said "standard map" you're referring to the standard canned v1.5x map yes?

I can't believe the 98 RON we get is so piss poor? I thought Shiv's v1.5x maps were all tuned for 91AKI, so anyone running 93AKI (or comparable) should not see as much knock.....but obviously not?

Yes "standard map is shiv's 1.5 tune. Their fuel is different and rated via a different method, I run 100RON all the time now.

Their 93aki fuel seems significantly better than our 98, I appears it even a bit better than out 100ron

This is your log expanded around a 3000 - 5000 rpm pull.

http://datazap.me/u/fizz/data-loggin...om=14392-14570

Your IAM is down to 0.6 which is already pulling 40% of timing from the Advance max A table values. But your KC Learned is still dropping very significantly pulling more timing due knock.


compare to this

http://datazap.me/u/steve99/100-ron-...zoom=2051-2248

IAM is one and no significant drops in KCA(KC Learned) which is knock correction timing advance I'm running 6 degrees at 5000 rpm your only running 1.7 degrees due knock retardation.

[Nardi330]

@Fizz, how do you drive your car usually?

I usually do short trips and by the time the car is warmed up I would have arrived. While the car is warming up, i usually keep the rev under 3000rpm which is the rev range where knock happens frequently.

when i started logging my car after flashing OFT, my IAM was 0.29!!! I have now changed my driving habits a bit and will drive a bit further than previously after the car is warmed and do some pulls over 4000rpm to clear the knocking range.

after a few weeks, my IAM now is mostly at 1.

[Fizz]

My daily commute is basically your average metro area driving, but not much start-stop traffic. Takes about 25mins to get to work, and being rush hour there's hardly any opportunity to rev past 4000 rpm. So mostly around 2000 to 3000+ rpm which, as you've mentioned, is where knock happens.

[Nardi330]

maybe drive in a lower gear occasionally just to let the engine revs pass 3000rpm?

[Fizz]

Originally Posted by steve99

Your IAM is down to 0.6 which is already pulling 40% of timing from the Advance max A table values. But your KC Learned is still dropping very significantly pulling more timing due knock.

compare to this

http://datazap.me/u/steve99/100-ron-...zoom=2051-2248

IAM is one and no significant drops in KCA(KC Learned) which is knock correction timing advance I'm running 6 degrees at 5000 rpm your only running 1.7 degrees due knock retardation.

So I gather that my tune isn't producing much performance over the stock map due to all the knock I'm getting....but what about potential damage? Since flashing Shiv's tune I've driven the car hard (i.e. redlined) a number of times, and with all the knock that has been going on, do you think there's any damage done? Or would the ECU have pulled quickly enough to counter this?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Fizz

So I gather that my tune isn't producing much performance over the stock map due to all the knock I'm getting....but what about potential damage? Since flashing Shiv's tune I've driven the car hard (i.e. redlined) a number of times, and with all the knock that has been going on, do you think there's any damage done? Or would the ECU have pulled quickly enough to counter this?

It will certainly be losing performance how much is debatable. The best option is to run better fuel.

Second best is to pull some timing to stop the knock, the ECU is very aggressive when it pulls timing due knock, if you pull timing from the map yourself you generally only need to pull half as much.

As for engine damage well that's probably unlikely (I am no expert on knock damage to engines though). The stock tune knock's on 98 as well seen iam drop to .6 or so on stock tune on my car and others. The ECU is pretty efficient at managing knock but it does so at the expense of performance. I just don't like to see that level of knock on a long term basis.

The overall ignition advance is a couple of degrees higher than stock on the vishnu tunes over about 4500.

[akyp]

Thank you @steve99. Just flashed the 98 RON maps on page 1 and went for a drive: http://www.datazap.me/u/akyp/2014040...om=13406-13893

Still seeing some KC at 3000rpm though AM stays at 1.0. Should I pull more timing or is it within acceptable range?