Would I boost this car again if I had the chance?

[bmxr]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I think it would depend on the level of modification on both cars, but in roughly apples to apples levels of modification, the WRX will win any acceleration metric, while the BRZ takes any cornering type of metric. In terms of actual on-track performance, it's actually very, very close, with the WRX having an exponentially lower skill floor.

The bigger issue, is that the WRX will overheat in stock or bolt-on form, while the BRZ will just cook it's oil.

Stock vs stock, same driver, etc. I would think a WRX should be at least two seconds a lap faster than a BRZ almost anywhere, and much more at a big track. Lightning Lap a >3 second gap at VIR. I'd be surprised if the difference was not similar at Homestead and Sebring where I put in my laps. The BRZ is fun and does a lot things right, but the fact is, it's pretty slow.


I agree the WRX is idiot proof, but to its credit, it is also a lot of fun to drive. It's pretty well suspended and has a lot of tire for what it is. The dire need for cooling, brakes, and a major retune, gave me the excuse to switch platforms and start over, though.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I literally just yesterday was dead even with a seemingly stock 2017 wrx from a dig on Cali91with just a catless header and cat back. My car is flex fuel but I'm running Cali91right now.

Jaden

From a dig until what? Did they do anything or just let out the clutch gently and roll onto the throttle? You may have an advantage out of the hole unless the driver is ready to throw down. My friend has a stock 15 wrx with a tune he did himself. Full launch he does a 12.9s 1/4. With heated up 200tw tires, header, catless front pipe and dynotune on 93, I barely can get a low 14. With a 2.2 60ft. The longer the distance, the more of a gap he'd put on me.

It would be a rare exception to see this car in n/a bolt on form to be the equal of an fa20DIT or EJ257/255 car driven by someone who either knows how to launch awd or is ready to bet their driveline on putting you in their rearview. And when the temperature dips below freezing, if they've deleted the egt heater it's crazy.

And please don't misunderstand; our cars can be pretty quick, just not quite that much so easily. With the exception of someone running a crazy high diff ratio haha

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by GrabTheWheel

Yep. Mine were both standard compression because I was almost always running E85. You were smart to lower compression. My other suggestion would be to shift at 7K. Neither were making big power at all. I was just shooting for 400 plus WHP supercharged but never even got close. First set up was on a Rotrex and I quickly learned you cannot make big power with a C38 on an FA20, don't care what anyone else tells you. That engine blew on the dyno after a very gentle 3K mile break in on less than a bar of boost.

2nd engine was on a TVS1320 on the standard pulley on E85 so like 330 WHP and blew after only 1K miles. I've been close to giving up on the platform many times but always come back to it because of how well it fits me and the analog feel. There will never be another new car that's as back to basics as the 86 and I love that about it. Finally made the call to eliminate arguably the 2 biggest weaknesses of the platform the engine and transmission. I know it will hardly be an 86 anymore but steering feel and handling characteristics should still remain intact.

Thats actually almost unbelievable how quickly your engines blew. I would expect a non built fa20 to last a lot longer with either of those set ups. Do you know what let go both times? I hope you finally achieve piece of mind with your engine swap, if anybody deserves it, its you.

Cheers brotha.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

From a dig until what? Did they do anything or just let out the clutch gently and roll onto the throttle? You may have an advantage out of the hole unless the driver is ready to throw down. My friend has a stock 15 wrx with a tune he did himself. Full launch he does a 12.9s 1/4. With heated up 200tw tires, header, catless front pipe and dynotune on 93, I barely can get a low 14. With a 2.2 60ft. The longer the distance, the more of a gap he'd put on me.

It would be a rare exception to see this car in n/a bolt on form to be the equal of an fa20DIT or EJ257/255 car driven by someone who either knows how to launch awd or is ready to bet their driveline on putting you in their rearview. And when the temperature dips below freezing, if they've deleted the egt heater it's crazy.

And please don't misunderstand; our cars can be pretty quick, just not quite that much so easily. With the exception of someone running a crazy high diff ratio haha

Until traffic prevented going any further or about 75mph.

Other times have been with e85 on the freeway up to 120-125. But driving skill is a bigger factor there. Although both of those claimed to have stage2Cobb tunes.


Jaden

[Ski.mask]

Wow blowing a built motor, must be either oil, or tuning issue i know of a few people 3 with build motore just refresh tho and 7 stock internals with supercharge and turbo builts no issues and yes they track them too

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

See my last post. Every wrx ive ran into was the same. Id walk it with e85 in the tank...

Jaden

As has been said the way boost comes on in the wrx makes it seem faster than it is, you're driving it separate from your twin. Besides your twin is boosted isn't it? It shouldn't even be close between your cars.

My WRX will pull on my BRZ at any speed except perhaps a 5mph roll, where the BRZ briefly makes more output at very low rpm.

My WRX on ethanol will walk a stock CBA.

Does your car have a significant amount of weight reduction? Weight matters a lot.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mrg666

JRSC C30 (factory tune) totally transformed my car. I have installed and I am doing all of the maintenance. There has not been a single down day, car never refused to start after 20k miles in all weathers of Northeast. It is my everyday car. I can't imagine the car without the supercharger anymore. I think most of the problems we see here are installation errors, tune problems, or too much boost (especially at low rpm), or just bad luck that can happen even without boost.

I would boost again with the following simple rules.
- This is a high revving, high compression engine. Keep the boost low. Don't aim for low rpm torque.
- Use an oil cooler
- Install properly!
- Get the best tune, not the cheapest

I cannot stress that enough.

[Jesse36m3]

I would boost again if given the chance. 100%.

[olsonpg]

Originally Posted by Jesse36m3

I would boost again if given the chance. 100%.

Thats what i like to hear!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by bmxr

Stock vs stock, same driver, etc. I would think a WRX should be at least two seconds a lap faster than a BRZ almost anywhere, and much more at a big track. Lightning Lap a >3 second gap at VIR. I'd be surprised if the difference was not similar at Homestead and Sebring where I put in my laps. The BRZ is fun and does a lot things right, but the fact is, it's pretty slow.


I agree the WRX is idiot proof, but to its credit, it is also a lot of fun to drive. It's pretty well suspended and has a lot of tire for what it is. The dire need for cooling, brakes, and a major retune, gave me the excuse to switch platforms and start over, though.

The WRX has a lot going for it, so I think it would win, especially on a track where the surface is suspect or one that has a lot of straight aways. I gotta think that the WRX has some disadvantages to the 86 that would level the fields some. For one, its engine is higher (like 8”) and further forward (like 10”). It is so far forward that the transmission is inline with the front axles, so it can have symmetric AWD. Then there is the 400lbs extra weight, which means the 86 will probably handle the corners better and prevail in late braking. Just saying. It wouldn’t be a slam dunk by the WRX.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

My WRX will pull on my BRZ at any speed except perhaps a 5mph roll, where the BRZ briefly makes more output at very low rpm.

My WRX on ethanol will walk a stock CBA.

Does your car have a significant amount of weight reduction? Weight matters a lot.

No one brought up power for cost or anything, I responded to someone claiming that if they wanted a car with 300 hp they would buy a wrx or they would like a stock wrx drivetrain in a twin.

I responded that anyone who thinks a stock wrx is vastly superior to a twin is on crack and I will stand by that.

You can say whatever you want. I've beaten a stage 2 cobb tuned wrx on the freeway on e85 and I just stayed straight up, light to light with a new wrx on cali 91 with just a stage 2 tune and a catless header.

Say they're shitty drivers, fine, but they aren't walking a twin all that readily is all I'm saying.

Your WRX is not stock and you're an awesome driver, so it's hard to use you as a comparison.

Jaden

[shadow_772]

It may not be about them being a junk driver. A lot of people think they are racing on the street when the other driver hops on the throttle for a bit and lets off. I'm not saying your situation was that, but on the trolling car scene pages on facebook here I see slower cars talking about how they destroyed a much faster car on the street all the time. Most people don't like tickets is what it comes down to.

I'm with mike on this. I drove (my) 15 WRX for years prior to going the BRZ route.
As you said, the twinscroll is by no means a gentle curve to max boost and it can be very deceiving, but it is still a faster car in a straight line on the street.

Is it vastly superior? Not really. Is it noticeably faster (not just due to boost, but overall), yes.

For the record I still have a 15 wrx in my driveway right next to the BRZ. I prefer the BRZ by far, so there isn't a bias.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

No one brought up power for cost or anything, I responded to someone claiming that if they wanted a car with 300 hp they would buy a wrx or they would like a stock wrx drivetrain in a twin.

I responded that anyone who thinks a stock wrx is vastly superior to a twin is on crack and I will stand by that.

You can say whatever you want. I've beaten a stage 2 cobb tuned wrx on the freeway on e85 and I just stayed straight up, light to light with a new wrx on cali 91 with just a stage 2 tune and a catless header.

Say they're shitty drivers, fine, but they aren't walking a twin all that readily is all I'm saying.

Your WRX is not stock and you're an awesome driver, so it's hard to use you as a comparison.

Jaden

It takes very little skill to go WOT in a straight line, especially in a car like a 15+ wrx that has very tall gears.

If you pulled on a stage 2 WRX on 91, that WRX must have a very poor tune!

A 200whp ethanol NA 86 simply is not competition for a 290whp 91 catless FA20DIT WRX, even considering the weight difference!

200whp/2950lbs (including driver) vs 240whp (stock)/3430lbs (including driver). Even with this ricer math, the WRX has superior power to weight, as well as a much, much fatter powerband.

If you were racing a clone yourself with a stock WRX, i would 100% put my money on the WRX.

As they say, anything can happen on the street, and there are many, many badly running WRX's and untuned WRX's out there. Anyone claiming a "stage" is just a big thumbs down from me.

[shadow_772]

^ Just my .02

EDIT: Mike commented between this and my last post... This was directed at myself.