Traded my FR-S for a Mustang GT: A cautionary tale

[Reason]

Updated the original with some photos for flavour

[Wolfking]

Originally Posted by AVodka14

Great read. I was contemplating the exact swap. I love the 5.0 Mustang. I just had this feeling that I would miss the FRS. Therefore I am keeping her as long as I can. Let us know what you end up with. Welcome back, I guess...

I thought I'd wait and see how the 2015 Mustang reviewed before seriously considering the switch. NOW I'm not in such a rush!

[jcblown13]

Originally Posted by Reason

Updated the original with some photos for flavour

Thanks for the pics. You don't look squished in there like a friend of mine did in a Mini.


Also, That live axle Mustang thing that has bugged me for years. In 1991 I bought a Cougar instead of the Mustang. I still have that 1991 Mercury Cougar XR7 with the 5.0 HO V8 and it actually has independent rear suspension. The MN12 was great in its day. I guess Ford wanted to hold down the cost of the Mustang so they never ported this over. Shame. Perhaps in 2015 it shall be corrected.

[Reason]

Originally Posted by jcblown13

Thanks for the pics. You don't look squished in there like a friend of mine did in a Mini.


Also, That live axle Mustang thing that has bugged me for years. In 1991 I bought a Cougar instead of the Mustang. I still have that 1991 Mercury Cougar XR7 with the 5.0 HO V8 and it actually has independent rear suspension. The MN12 was great in its day. I guess Ford wanted to hold down the cost of the Mustang so they never ported this over. Shame. Perhaps in 2015 it shall be corrected.

They are replacing the live rear end with an IRS for the 2015 models.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

haha no.. thinking MGB/MGBGT, S800, 2002, Spitfire, etc. Good american cars from those days cost too much money.

Check out some Alfa's, a little pricey but from what I can tell the engine is stout and full of Italian character (from the 60's that is), the electronics and mechanicals are too simple to be a huge headach, only issue seems to be rust, but I could be way off base. An early GTV would be my replacement if I wanted something more interesting than a Toyobaru but had intentions of using it the same. If you'd be willing to suffer through an 80's Italian GTV6's are very reasonable right now.

http://www.petrolicious.com/a-couple...-parking-stall

Concerning the OP I think he's got a good measure of the Mustang; a car built around it's engine. The V6 seems to be more even and I didn't drive the GT but the idea that it outshines the chassis makes perfect sense to me. I knew from the first turn there was no way I'd pay equal money for it over the Toyobaru, sure it's a great car, I'll take the slower one that's 700 lbs. less please.

On NC Miata's I think you guys are underselling it's capabilities, drove one with sticky tires, coilovers and swaybars and it was much more capable than my stock Toyobaru, if you're on the fence but plan on upgrading suspension anyway I wouldn't favor one over the other. I think all the other criticisms hold true though with many tracks requiring rollbars, hassles of having a convertible, lack of practicality are what kept me away. Like the Mustang, I'll take the heavier one with a roof please.

It's a pretty good time to be an enthusiast, about once every two or three weeks I make the mistake of looking up Miata's on craigslist, always have to fight the temptation to bring home an NA... "But honey, it was cheaper than the last guitar!"

[overlookedx]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Check out some Alfa's, a little pricey but from what I can tell the engine is stout and full of Italian character (from the 60's that is), the electronics and mechanicals are too simple to be a huge headach, only issue seems to be rust, but I could be way off base. An early GTV would be my replacement if I wanted something more interesting than a Toyobaru but had intentions of using it the same. If you'd be willing to suffer through an 80's Italian GTV6's are very reasonable right now.

There was a GTV6 for sale locally not too long ago and it definitely piqued my interest when I saw it parked on the street. I started researching the heck out of it but decided I don't know enough about Italian cars or what to look for when buying one so I held off. Your post has got me curious again though, I wonder if it's still for sale...

And to be somewhat relevant: I sold my BRZ a few months ago and have been feeling the regret creep up recently. I drove around a NA Miata for the past two weeks just to get some of that feeling back, but it never felt like it fit me. I'm probably a bit too tall for it, and looked into fitting seats, roll cage, etc into it but its just too much work to pass the broomstick test and still keep it a DD. I miss my BRZ...

[l0aded]

Thanks for sharing. Great read.

[Reason]

So an update as far as my personal mentality towards the Mustang vs 86 dilemma .

So it seems the roller coaster has come to a stop. I have been back and forth with some dealers over the last few weeks trying to get into a BRZ as a straight trade for the Mustang. I decided on one dealer and last night went back to them to hear their 'final offer' as it were. They had come down on the price a little (mostly due to a cash-back incentive Subaru is running on the 2014's that are still on the lot) and were also offering me a bit more on trade in for my car after I provided some receipts for the air suspension.

I took the numbers and went for a long drive in the GT and, almost to my own surprise...I've decided to not go through with this. Yes, I want a BRZ. Yes, I think the Mustang isn't really the car for me and if I had to do it over I would have kept the fr-s. I think I'm just going to live with my fuck up, pay off mustang as fast as possible and when the dust settles in a couple years, I'll get my BRZ. The mustang isn't a bad car. It's even admirable how well it can step outside of its usual areas of expertise and actually throw itself around a corner.

I think for the past year since I bought the Mustang, right from day 1 I had a mentality of "I just need to adjust this... change out that part and then POOF sports car!". First it was the shifter, then it was the suspension. Then it was winter and I was on snow tires so it got a stay of execution for 6 months. Then it was wheels and tires and then after it warmed up and I started really driving the car around some of the regional driving roads, and I had changed the suspension and improved the shift feel... then the car had no excuses and I was disappointed that it didn't feel like I had hoped. It doesn't feel bad by any means but it's getting things done with less delicacy. It has good balance and brute force grip but it isn't gentle or gradual. You throw it into a corner, pick a throttle position and you hold on while it undulates and squirms over every crack and pothole and lump but it keeps its line. You don't respond to what it does so much as you tell it what to do. It's the difference between a well trained German Shepard which will do as its told with no emotion, and a silly, excited and slightly dumb Labrador retriever eagerly waiting for you to throw a stick for it. The former gets your respect, but the later gets your adoration.

There are outside factors too. I'm about to move within walking distance to work so fuel economy isn't as big of a deal for the future. It also affords me the ability to compromise the Mustang so that it is a bit more of a dynamic 'sports muscle car' and not quite as commuter oriented. Practically that just means I can probably ditch some things for weight savings and not have to worry about noise and vibration as much.

It still won't be as rewarding as an 86 is, but I can at least take some of what I love about the 86 and try to give it some of that spirit.

So, i'm going to stick with the Mustang. I'll continue to modify it, but i'm also going to stop trying to make it something it is not and play to its strengths of that amazing engine and quite capable, if chaotic, cornering limits. I'd like to remove some of the vagueness. I'm going to keep it to a budget, because of the other factor I decided on; to buy a cheap old lightweight sports car. Miata (I'll modify it to fit around me...) or maybe the right e30. Maybe an old Fiat 2000 or MG.

[FRSpappa]

I would suggest NOT to pay it off if your saying your gonna get rid of it. Just puts you farther in the hole with depreciation, especially with the new Mustang coming out! Dump it now and take your lumps and get what you want while your trade in is still high. I was in a similar situation and don't regret the trade one bit as it paid for half my FRS, and I'm smiling every day since purchase! Also, sounds like you'd be doing the same thing with the Miata; IE trying to make a BRZ/FRS like the Stang. Remember you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear...


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[Reason]

Originally Posted by FRSpappa

I would suggest NOT to pay it off if your saying your gonna get rid of it. Just puts you farther in the hole with depreciation, especially with the new Mustang coming out! Dump it now and take your lumps and get what you want while your trade in is still high. I was in a similar situation and don't regret the trade one bit as it paid for half my FRS, and I'm smiling every day since purchase! Also, sounds like you'd be doing the same thing with the Miata; IE trying to make a BRZ/FRS like the Stang. Remember you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear...


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I don't follow your logic. Accelerating payments closes the gap that is generated by the quick depreciation of domestic cars. Getting out now would mean taking the biggest hit. Over time the gap lessens, unless your repayments are over a really long term and your interest starts to dominate the amount you owe. If you're talking about the asset value of the mustang being highest now in direct trade for another car, you're right.

Also, i'm not talking about making a miata/e30/etc into a brz, but they are able to fill the niche that the Mustang cannot; light simple drivers cars.

I'm going to let the Mustang be what it is and just live with it, embrace it - and maybe pick up something to be what i'm missing - light and simple and cheap.

[CSG David]

We know how to make the BRZ/FRS really fun and reliable.

[FRSpappa]

Once you drive a new car off any lot you've already taken the biggest hit, period!


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[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Reason

So an update as far as my personal mentality towards the Mustang vs 86 dilemma .

So it seems the roller coaster has come to a stop. I have been back and forth with some dealers over the last few weeks trying to get into a BRZ as a straight trade for the Mustang. I decided on one dealer and last night went back to them to hear their 'final offer' as it were. They had come down on the price a little (mostly due to a cash-back incentive Subaru is running on the 2014's that are still on the lot) and were also offering me a bit more on trade in for my car after I provided some receipts for the air suspension.

I took the numbers and went for a long drive in the GT and, almost to my own surprise...I've decided to not go through with this. Yes, I want a BRZ. Yes, I think the Mustang isn't really the car for me and if I had to do it over I would have kept the fr-s. I think I'm just going to live with my fuck up, pay off mustang as fast as possible and when the dust settles in a couple years, I'll get my BRZ. The mustang isn't a bad car. It's even admirable how well it can step outside of its usual areas of expertise and actually throw itself around a corner.

I think for the past year since I bought the Mustang, right from day 1 I had a mentality of "I just need to adjust this... change out that part and then POOF sports car!". First it was the shifter, then it was the suspension. Then it was winter and I was on snow tires so it got a stay of execution for 6 months. Then it was wheels and tires and then after it warmed up and I started really driving the car around some of the regional driving roads, and I had changed the suspension and improved the shift feel... then the car had no excuses and I was disappointed that it didn't feel like I had hoped. It doesn't feel bad by any means but it's getting things done with less delicacy. It has good balance and brute force grip but it isn't gentle or gradual. You throw it into a corner, pick a throttle position and you hold on while it undulates and squirms over every crack and pothole and lump but it keeps its line. You don't respond to what it does so much as you tell it what to do. It's the difference between a well trained German Shepard which will do as its told with no emotion, and a silly, excited and slightly dumb Labrador retriever eagerly waiting for you to throw a stick for it. The former gets your respect, but the later gets your adoration.

There are outside factors too. I'm about to move within walking distance to work so fuel economy isn't as big of a deal for the future. It also affords me the ability to compromise the Mustang so that it is a bit more of a dynamic 'sports muscle car' and not quite as commuter oriented. Practically that just means I can probably ditch some things for weight savings and not have to worry about noise and vibration as much.

It still won't be as rewarding as an 86 is, but I can at least take some of what I love about the 86 and try to give it some of that spirit.

So, i'm going to stick with the Mustang. I'll continue to modify it, but i'm also going to stop trying to make it something it is not and play to its strengths of that amazing engine and quite capable, if chaotic, cornering limits. I'd like to remove some of the vagueness. I'm going to keep it to a budget, because of the other factor I decided on; to buy a cheap old lightweight sports car. Miata (I'll modify it to fit around me...) or maybe the right e30. Maybe an old Fiat 2000 or MG.

Makes sense. It's a steep price to pay to keep trading in cars, and the Mustang has its own set of qualities that are enjoyable. May as well make the most of it now while you can. Someday you'll have a BRZ or other lightweight sports car, and might actually miss that Coyote V8. May as well enjoy it while you've got it.

Also, thanks for posting. I can see myself having done the exact same thing as you (trying to turn a Mustang GT into something it's not) and being disappointed. Glad you shared your experience.

[Lavalover]

An excellent thread. The OP is a talented writer IMHO.