SARD ITB (4 Throttle) News!

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Apples and oranges must look/feel/taste the same to you.

Grow up please.

Don’t post a dyno graph showing a 45hp increase and say that’s typical of an ITB setup on an S2000, with no other context.

[gtengr]

It seems we have a good many folks who would pull the trigger on these if the gains are decent and/or it sounds cool. I think my threshold would be an independently verified +15 rwhp. Does SARD ever post here? I'm not really familiar with them. Seems like they would have some graphs to go with their marketing.

[venturaII]

The Greddy and SARD system both seem to have similar runner volume, at first eyeball...

[churchx]

To me it also would be of interest how ITB gains stack or not with other bolton gains. It seemed that there is some "limit" of diminishing returns of +40whp that could be reached with different boltons (and tune of course) .. but wondering if ITB may let to get above it? All the other NA parts are already tried after all. Snorkel, filter, intake, spacers, headers of different designs, overpipe, frontpipe, catbacks, cat deletes, straight exits, side or above bonnet exits and mirriads of combinations of these parts .. so what interests me if there is anything else that may add up NA performance above that .. OR if it's simpler/cheaper to get to that limit by other boltons.

[Hawk77FT]

What is the point of ITB's without any work on the head? the gains will be limited by the head flow straight off the bat! Or at least different cams...with that said however, you would have to be crazy fanatic for NA to spend this kind of coin that is in the supercharger territory already!! My opinion though!

Very cool to see these finally coming out!

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

What is the point of ITB's without any work on the head? the gains will be limited by the head flow straight off the bat! Or at least different cams...with that said however, you would have to be crazy fanatic for NA to spend this kind of coin that is in the supercharger territory already!! My opinion though!

Very cool to see these finally coming out!

I think the point is that there are enough crazy NA fanatics for this car to make it profitable...

ITBs themselves are just going to increase throttle response, and probably quite significantly for a boxer. The interesting bit is what ITBs let you do with the rest of the intake system for both NA and FI.

Say you were to make a larger intake plenum for some reason without changing anything else on the car. When you open the (single) throttle, the higher pressure air has to fill that space first before you can fill the cylinders. With ITBs you can tune the intake(s) however you want, and still have fantastic throttle response.

It would be interesting to see a dual throttle intake with one throttle body per bank. Granted, it would be a hard sell since I don't expect there to be much of a price difference...

Ramble ramble ramble...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Don’t post a dyno graph showing a 45hp increase and say that’s typical of an ITB setup on an S2000, with no other context.

No other context necessary. It's an A/B before/after dyno with ITBs and proper tuning.

Thank you, try again.

[PuslarBrrrz]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

What is the point of ITB's without any work on the head? the gains will be limited by the head flow straight off the bat! Or at least different cams...

Our heads flow pretty well as it turns out. The cams are limiting for NA but still pretty aggressive for stock. There was a shop that ran 13.5 comp pistons with an other wise stock block and made 215-220whp. This is with our standard E85, tune and exhaust mods our course.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

No other context necessary. It's an A/B before/after dyno with ITBs and proper tuning.

Thank you, try again.

Except there's no way in hell that just ITBs and tune are netting a 45hp gain on an S2000, as you're shadily trying to imply.
Let me guess, CSG will be carrying one of these two offerings for the FA20?

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Except there's no way in hell that just ITBs and tune are netting a 45hp gain on an S2000, as you're shadily trying to imply.
Let me guess, CSG will be carrying one of these two offerings for the FA20?

We get it - you like being a douche. You had ample opportunity to prove us wrong, but bless your little heart, you kept at it and there's really no question about it at this point. Nice work.

[Tokay444]

Proved wrong that 45hp is the typical gain on an S2000 with ITBs though.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Wonderful accomplishment.

Maybe by the next 7 pages of this nonsense thread, SARD or Greddy will actually release some dyno charts or someone can get their hands on one so we can actually see the value, or lack thereof, of the components...

[armstrom]

I don't understand the obsession with HP/Torque gains... That's a very crude way to measure the value of a mod. WOT throttle dyno runs are fine for showing raw power increase but they are incapable of measuring things like throttle response. Sometimes a modification is worth it to the buyer just because it moves the torque curve around a little bit. People spend money on all sorts of mods that cannot show gains on a dyno: lightweight flywheels, lightweight pulleys, carbon fiber driveshafts, different rear-end ratios, you name it.

Why bash the product? If the vendor (SARD or Greddy) were in here making wild claims about the product then there might be something to say. If this mod isn't for you, then move along. People spend twice as much as these things cost just on paint and body work all the time. No one is forcing anyone to buy this product.
-Matt

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by armstrom

I don't understand the obsession with HP/Torque gains... That's a very crude way to measure the value of a mod. WOT throttle dyno runs are fine for showing raw power increase but they are incapable of measuring things like throttle response. Sometimes a modification is worth it to the buyer just because it moves the torque curve around a little bit. People spend money on all sorts of mods that cannot show gains on a dyno: lightweight flywheels, lightweight pulleys, carbon fiber driveshafts, different rear-end ratios, you name it.

Why bash the product? If the vendor (SARD or Greddy) were in here making wild claims about the product then there might be something to say. If this mod isn't for you, then move along. People spend twice as much as these things cost just on paint and body work all the time. No one is forcing anyone to buy this product.
-Matt

Are you telling me a RB kit doesn't add 150whp?! My god man what're you on about???

This thread has totally derailed from 'I wonder how these components will perform' into absolute nonsense.