RIP Boosted BRZ & Driver

[BRZ-OwnzJo0]

Not sure what you people are talking about with the VSC? I always drive with everything on and I can't imagine ever crashing on accident with this shit turned on. I think it does a great job. Yea, when you compare anything in a 30k car to anything in a 60k+ car, it's probably not going to compare. Maybe it's because I don't use the shitty stock tires but I've never had an issue with my back end sliding out unless I wanted it to and even then it's nearly impossible to do with my wide, sticky tires and VSC on. :shrug:

Anyway, RIP to those lost. Be safe out there. People drive RWD, high horsepower cars year round all the time and never have issues. I'm not sure why people are having them with this car.

[CyberFormula]

I've seen similar thins happen to EVO owners who crash their cars on the street/canyon, 2 of which I know personally. One still drives some type of performance car, the other is scared to drive any car.

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by BRZ-OwnzJo0

Not sure what you people are talking about with the VSC? I always drive with everything on and I can't imagine ever crashing on accident with this shit turned on. I think it does a great job. Yea, when you compare anything in a 30k car to anything in a 60k+ car, it's probably not going to compare. Maybe it's because I don't use the shitty stock tires but I've never had an issue with my back end sliding out unless I wanted it to and even then it's nearly impossible to do with my wide, sticky tires and VSC on. :shrug:

It's not that I've had problems with the car sliding around, but I have triggered VSC/trac before (through false wheel-hop alarms on bumpy / uphill corners) and when that's happened the computer intervention hasn't felt very smooth (it feels like the car just dumps throttle entirely until it's satisfied that your wheel is no longer spinning). I've spent a decent amount of time on a skid pad and feel reasonably confident about catching a slide in these cars (these cars drive pretty easily even on the shitty stock tyres). Basically I'm more afraid of what the computer might do (since I'll have no idea what to expect) than I am about catching a slide (which I've done plenty of times before and have an OK feel for). I do a lot of my for-fun driving in cars that don't have stability / traction control, so I'm pretty used to doing things unassisted, and I tend to drive somewhat conservatively on the street (I'll do little powerslides in slow corners and sort of squirm the tail around a little on faster ones, but that's about it, and even that I only do in places where I know there aren't other people to hit... if you can't see through a corner it's a bad place to be having too much fun).

I don't know why 86 crash stats would be very different from RWD sportscar crash stats in general. The 86 isn't that unprecedented: the Z cars were RWD (and more powerful) without being prohibitively expensive, and people who liked driving could always get various used RWD sportscars on the cheap, so it's not like the 86 brought RWD to a bunch of people who would never have had a chance to experience it before. My guess is that 86 crash rates aren't significantly higher than those of other similar cars.

The only time I've surprised myself in this car was during one of my first wet-road outings: I took the car out in my neighborhood to see how it drove when pushed hard in the wet and tossed it into an empty corner with the intention of sliding it around. I proceeded to get a way bigger slide than anticipated (I expected maybe ten or fifteen degrees and got more like 25 or 30 as the rear end felt like it had had a rug pulled out from under it-- not a progressive slide at all). I'd noticed that the car felt pretty loose before when driving on cool / foggy mornings and I'm glad I decided to see what it would do on wet road, because Primacy HPs and cool water do not mix well. I've spent the last few years driving on Dunlop Star Specs and Super Sports which are hardly fazed by rain at all, so it was weird seeing a tyre change so drastically with just a few drops of water on the road.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by AznKirby

Canyon carving at night is really dangerous, even on a road you know very well.

I'm not sure where I first saw this clip (stupid memory).
I'm guessing the guy was thinking "shit yeah, i'm so cool".
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_Vlgy5dbM"]CRAZY Cliff Driving Crash | BMW M3 Drives Off Cliff - YouTube[/ame]

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

My guess is that 86 crash rates aren't significantly higher than those of other similar cars.

Given that there are something like 30-40,000 ( ) fatalities on U.S. roads each year the BRZ/FR-S would be lucky to come out on top (so to speak).

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811845.pdf

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I'm not sure where I first saw this clip (stupid memory).
I'm guessing the guy was thinking "shit yeah, i'm so cool".

Jalopnik? That's where I saw it a while back IIRC. That and the teenager in his dad's white M3 running off the road into a boulder (also scary as fuck):

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZVrnd9V7sk#t=4"]Kid crashes BMW M3 into rocks (2012) - YouTube[/ame]

I like how the two dudes in the video you linked also enjoy driving on the wrong side of the road around blind corners. I love the one right at the beginning where the car ahead is literally sliding completely into oncoming traffic.

RIP M3s

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Given that there are something like 30-40,000 ( ) fatalities on U.S. roads each year the BRZ/FR-S would be lucky to come out on top (so to speak).

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811845.pdf

I didn't mean absolute numbers, but percentage of 86's that crash each year. Drivers of other cars should always have more crashes than BRZ drivers because there are more of them.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

I didn't mean absolute numbers, but percentage of 86's that crash each year. Drivers of other cars should always have more crashes than BRZ drivers because there are more of them.

Yeah, that's how I understood your comment

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Yeah, that's how I understood your comment

Cool. The sad part is that I bet most of those fatalities have nothing to do with people hotrodding and mostly consist mostly of the same people who get irate with me about speeding crashing while fiddling with their mobiles.

I love it when people get mad at your for going above the posted speed limit, then you get stuck behind them on other occasions and they're driving ten under the posted speed limit in their shitty SUV on their cracking, half-flat all-season tyres whilst slopping over the double yellow lines around blind corners as they read their text messages. But I'm the one who's a dangerous driver because I exceed 35mph...

[ICantAffordAnLFA]

I am sure neither of the BMW wrecks had anything to do with TC off or challenging handling dynamics.

They were both just bad driving; white car, weightless after crest, other one too much speed, then understeer.

Driver training on track really pays off

[uEih]

Originally Posted by ICantAffordAnLFA

I am sure neither of the BMW wrecks had anything to do with TC off or challenging handling dynamics.

They were both just bad driving; white car, weightless after crest, other one too much speed, then understeer.

Driver training on track really pays off

Yup both of them was exactly that, an example of not knowing the road you're on and doing reckless things like that. Both of them drove off on the wrong side of the road also which is extremely dangerous and stupid to put others in risk like that.

[tailspin]

I don't have a lot of RWD experience, but this thread makes me worried about purchasing a twin. It seems like if it's slightly wet outside this car might lose control on curvy roads? Is the stock tires the problem?

I've been looking at this car for awhile and been planning on purchasing it because I love the design and looks like fun to drive; but if it has poor traction on the roads, it does worry me. And doesn't the highly rated handling mean the car won't slide out of control?

sorry for the newbish questions!

[Flow]

Originally Posted by tailspin

I don't have a lot of RWD experience, but this thread makes me worried about purchasing a twin. It seems like if it's slightly wet outside this car might lose control on curvy roads? Is the stock tires the problem?

I've been looking at this car for awhile and been planning on purchasing it because I love the design and looks like fun to drive; but if it has poor traction on the roads, it does worry me. And doesn't the highly rated handling mean the car won't slide out of control?

sorry for the newbish questions!

I'm no expert driver, and I've found that the car is very predictable and composed, and tells you when you are reaching its limits. I wouldn't take the message of this thread that the car (or RWD cars) are risky or this one has poor traction, rather that you should learn the car and gradually approach its limits. Whatever the car, if you're driving like an idiot, bad stuff is going to happen... mmk.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Flow

I'm no expert driver, and I've found that the car is very predictable and composed, and tells you when you are reaching its limits. I wouldn't take the message of this thread that the car (or RWD cars) are risky or this one has poor traction, rather that you should learn the car and gradually approach its limits. Whatever the car, if you're driving like an idiot, bad stuff is going to happen... mmk.

+1

Save the speeding and stunts for the race track.

RIP Darrell.

[R.S-HawK]

Originally Posted by tailspin

I don't have a lot of RWD experience, but this thread makes me worried about purchasing a twin. It seems like if it's slightly wet outside this car might lose control on curvy roads? Is the stock tires the problem?

I've been looking at this car for awhile and been planning on purchasing it because I love the design and looks like fun to drive; but if it has poor traction on the roads, it does worry me. And doesn't the highly rated handling mean the car won't slide out of control?

sorry for the newbish questions!

It didn't take very long soon after I bought to car to switch to Michellin Pilot Super Sports.

Road driving with stock tires on the wet is well, suicidal. You'll find that out relatively quickly your first time out in the rain.

If you're going drifting on the weekends, by all means, get a new set of wheels and mount the stock tires.