Engine idle chirping (cricket) noise poll.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by NeedsmoreCowbell

Nope you are wrong. Actually I got my car in May

Mine gets loud.

Could you tell us how many km/miles you've clocked up and if the chirping has got progressively louder?

[soconfoozed]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

You should take it back then and go buy something else.

Also, don't accuse me of being an apologist (or worse, a free one!) for Toyota. I don't like the crickets either but it's such a non-issue I can't wrap my head around why something as frivolous as the crickets gets so many panties wadded up. Also, I bet dollars to donuts you knew something or other about the "crickets" from this board or a review before you bought the car and you bought it anyway.

You assume incorrectly. I was a day one preorder, way back in March, before there was even a final price. Like so many users here, I've been following the car since it was a rumor. I have a pretty low VIN to show for it, too. I was sold on high promises, which I still believe in Subaru and Toyota's ability to make good on. But when basic quality issues like this arise, one shouldn't just accept "that's how it is." That isn't how it is. The design team needs to study the issue and do better. They need to deliver what was promised. My engineering director wouldn't accept any less of me. I would be ashamed to deliver something like this to a customer and tell them "well, it's pretty good otherwise, don't you think?"

This is just an entirely different class of issue from other stupid stuff, like the glovebox thread.

As for taking it back, you know as well as I do that's a money-losing proposition. You know further that for anybody who didn't buy cash, that isn't even an option. You seem to have missed my point. I love my BRZ. But the car I bought didn't make a chirping noise, point blank. That's the car I want. If it's truly the case that Subaru and Toyota can't or won't resolve the issue, well, who knows...

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by soconfoozed

If it's truly the case that Subaru and Toyota can't or won't resolve the issue, well, who knows...

I did assume incorrectly, but such is life with assumptions eh?

They won't resolve it unless it causes failures and even then it would have to cause "enough" failures to justify it. This isn't getting fixed. It doesn't take a genius in engineering or economics to see that the cost to address this is astronomical vs the loss of revenue from not addressing it. If the amount it costs to fix it is X then the cost to not fix it .0000X You do the math. You're good at math, you're an engineer.

So is complaining to Toyota a good thing? Well I don't think so only because I think they already know so no point in getting all worked up. It isn't going to be fixed on current cars but possibly addressed on future models.

Example: The 1st Generation S2000 from 1999-2002 had a recall in Europe on the oil jet bolts that shot oil on the bottom of the pistons to cool them. The Oil Bolts had 2 holes and at a certain RPM (say 5800 RPM) the pressure was such that oil would pass through the holes and lubricating/cooling the backside of the pistons. It turns out there was a flaw. If you drove your AP1 for long durations just below that oil pressure point (like on the autobahn at 90mph in 6th gear for extended periods) the oil didn't flow, the pistons didn't cool and cylinder number 4 failed.

Result:
1) Half way through 2002 the part was changed on the assembly line to switch out the 2-hole bolts for 4 hole bolts where the oil flowed at a lower pressure, at a lower RPM. No more Cyl #4 failures.

2) A Recall was issued in EU and Japan (and maybe Aus) to have these replaced. The cost to replace the part was cheaper then replacing thousands of engines under warranty! However... The recall was not issued in the USA because the cost analysis team determined that our speed limits lowered the possibility of this failure and that a recall would not be cost effective. It would be more cost effective to fix any failures through the warranty or if failure occurs out of warranty then costs are kept even lower.


I love being wrong, most of the time it means myself and others are better off and I sure hope I am. I would love to be wrong about this, really really wrong. I just don't see it happening this time.

You need to make peace with the soft song those crickets sing, I can't see how they're going to be easily silenced any time soon.

[sierra]

Hi Rice classic,

Here's your first and last comments. I'm pleased you got talked around in the end!
I'm not getting at you, I'm genuinely pleased.

"Hello, if you don't own an 86 and you're thinking about buying one just know the DI system makes noise but there is nothing wrong with it. "

Originally Posted by rice_classic

They won't resolve it unless it causes failures and even then it would have to cause "enough" failures to justify it. This isn't getting fixed. It doesn't take a genius in engineering or economics to see that the cost to address this is astronomical vs the loss of revenue from not addressing it. If the amount it costs to fix it is X then the cost to not fix it .0000X You do the math. You're good at math, you're an engineer.

So is complaining to Toyota a good thing? Well I don't think so only because I think they already know so no point in getting all worked up. It isn't going to be fixed on current cars but possibly addressed on future models.

[Chewie4299]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I did assume incorrectly, but such is life with assumptions eh?

They won't resolve it unless it causes failures and even then it would have to cause "enough" failures to justify it. This isn't getting fixed. It doesn't take a genius in engineering or economics to see that the cost to address this is astronomical vs the loss of revenue from not addressing it. If the amount it costs to fix it is X then the cost to not fix it .0000X You do the math. You're good at math, you're an engineer.

So is complaining to Toyota a good thing? Well I don't think so only because I think they already know so no point in getting all worked up. It isn't going to be fixed on current cars but possibly addressed on future models.

Example: The 1st Generation S2000 from 1999-2002 had a recall in Europe on the oil jet bolts that shot oil on the bottom of the pistons to cool them. The Oil Bolts had 2 holes and at a certain RPM (say 5800 RPM) the pressure was such that oil would pass through the holes and lubricating/cooling the backside of the pistons. It turns out there was a flaw. If you drove your AP1 for long durations just below that oil pressure point (like on the autobahn at 90mph in 6th gear for extended periods) the oil didn't flow, the pistons didn't cool and cylinder number 4 failed.

Result:
1) Half way through 2002 the part was changed on the assembly line to switch out the 2-hole bolts for 4 hole bolts where the oil flowed at a lower pressure, at a lower RPM. No more Cyl #4 failures.

2) A Recall was issued in EU and Japan (and maybe Aus) to have these replaced. The cost to replace the part was cheaper then replacing thousands of engines under warranty! However... The recall was not issued in the USA because the cost analysis team determined that our speed limits lowered the possibility of this failure and that a recall would not be cost effective. It would be more cost effective to fix any failures through the warranty or if failure occurs out of warranty then costs are kept even lower.


I love being wrong, most of the time it means myself and others are better off and I sure hope I am. I would love to be wrong about this, really really wrong. I just don't see it happening this time.

You need to make peace with the soft song those crickets sing, I can't see how they're going to be easily silenced any time soon.

This is a good example of bad for business penny pinching which, I believe, Toyota knows better than to do. I deal with it every day. Albeit in a different industry but the principal is the same. I work with a large group of independent owners of an international franchise that sells an expensive and unnecessary product with competition from a couple of similar industries vying for the customer's business.

The key to success, and it is a massive one, is taking care of your customers whenever possible regardless of cost. Refusing to honor an expired discount offer a customer brings to you, refusing to redeliver if there was an issue the first time, refusing to address a customers concerns about product quality because doing so would mean being out more product or a refund all are very poor business practices and this is BASIC. Too many business people look at things the way you describe. They look at option A costing $X.00 and option B costing $0.0X or nothing at all and find the decision simple. The "Do whatever keeps the most pennies in my pocket at this moment" method of operating a business of any size is wrong. You may have success despite this in a given situation but I can almost 100% guarantee that if you are in a business that caters to customers in a broad sense and those customers have alternatives to working with you you WILL be SIGNIFICANTLY more successful by ignoring the pennies (to a company as big as Toyota this IS pennies) and bending over backwards for your customer. I see shining examples of the truth of this everyday.

Why? Because then they come back. The pennies you lost by taking car of an issue with a solution that is in the customer's best interest will be eclipsed by the revenue of return business.

This is why my family has owned almost 10 Toyota's and nearly all of them from the same dealer. Quality. Value. Service.

If they let me down on this they risk losing a loyal customer. I'm not saying they WILL with me specifically but I will definitely be factoring this into future car buying decisions.

Basically there are people that operate the way you describe but I feel sorry for them. I hope Toyota is smart enough to know this. Given their success and reputation I'm still hopeful.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Marrk]

^^Chewie, you're dreaming my dream.

When you look at the world as it is, it must make you wonder what in heck they are teaching in those so-called business schools.

But I digress. Back to cars.

[NeedsmoreCowbell]

Originally Posted by sierra

Could you tell us how many km/miles you've clocked up and if the chirping has got progressively louder?

I'm at 3300 miles and from what I have noticed it's really loud on Costco gas which I thought was the bees knees. On shell and chevron it's not as loud. Funny thing is it's not jut the crickets at low noise but the, ac chirping, and some other chirp that shows up on gear shifts. When I pull up to the drive thru it's something I'm embarrassed about. I know Local people with more miles that don't get the chirps. I can live with it but to a person who can hear a baby cry thru 8 walls and 2 floors it's annoying. Also I tend not to listen to music so I hear all the little things

[chate]

5800 miles now, still chirps, i never cared before but it was quite loud parked in my friends driveway over the weekend and it sounded like my old accord with 100k+ at idle and i felt embarrassed, its a brand new car...shell gas

[brz007]

523 miles....forest full of crickets

[soconfoozed]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I did assume incorrectly, but such is life with assumptions eh?

They won't resolve it unless it causes failures and even then it would have to cause "enough" failures to justify it. This isn't getting fixed. It doesn't take a genius in engineering or economics to see that the cost to address this is astronomical vs the loss of revenue from not addressing it. If the amount it costs to fix it is X then the cost to not fix it .0000X You do the math. You're good at math, you're an engineer.

So is complaining to Toyota a good thing? Well I don't think so only because I think they already know so no point in getting all worked up. It isn't going to be fixed on current cars but possibly addressed on future models.

Example: The 1st Generation S2000 from 1999-2002 had a recall in Europe on the oil jet bolts that shot oil on the bottom of the pistons to cool them. The Oil Bolts had 2 holes and at a certain RPM (say 5800 RPM) the pressure was such that oil would pass through the holes and lubricating/cooling the backside of the pistons. It turns out there was a flaw. If you drove your AP1 for long durations just below that oil pressure point (like on the autobahn at 90mph in 6th gear for extended periods) the oil didn't flow, the pistons didn't cool and cylinder number 4 failed.

Result:
1) Half way through 2002 the part was changed on the assembly line to switch out the 2-hole bolts for 4 hole bolts where the oil flowed at a lower pressure, at a lower RPM. No more Cyl #4 failures.

2) A Recall was issued in EU and Japan (and maybe Aus) to have these replaced. The cost to replace the part was cheaper then replacing thousands of engines under warranty! However... The recall was not issued in the USA because the cost analysis team determined that our speed limits lowered the possibility of this failure and that a recall would not be cost effective. It would be more cost effective to fix any failures through the warranty or if failure occurs out of warranty then costs are kept even lower.


I love being wrong, most of the time it means myself and others are better off and I sure hope I am. I would love to be wrong about this, really really wrong. I just don't see it happening this time.

You need to make peace with the soft song those crickets sing, I can't see how they're going to be easily silenced any time soon.

Chewie already said most of what I would say to you, so there's little point in repeating him other than to say that my organization behaves as his does, and on the rare occasion we do bungle something up, we identify all affected users and then spend whatever is needed to make things right for them. And that's just life for us, it's never a question. Nobody is concerned about some bonus attached to a nice-looking P&L. We just want to do right by the customer, always, and we have earned many loyal users.

Believe it or not, you can attach a dollar figure to your reputation. Building a brand, and more broadly, building a self-sustaining, innovative organization is one of the most challenging tasks in business. It's why Steve Jobs said his greatest creation wasn't any one Apple product he contributed to, but Apple itself. If you hate Apple, substitute some other successful brand...AmEx, GE, Disney, 3M, etc.

Especially at a time when Korean manufacturers are proving their ability to design a quality product and the American industry is making a really strong effort at resurgence, Subaru and Toyota need to guard their reputation fiercely.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Chewie4299

you WILL be SIGNIFICANTLY more successful by ignoring the pennies (to a company as big as Toyota this IS pennies) and bending over backwards for your customer.

Why I agree with all of the premise, I also see a very small chance of this being done by large public corporations. Executives there jump ships very often (that's the best way to get promoted/pay increased), and care very little about longer-term.

So the only way things get done - if the short-term losses (wether monetary or reputational) are significant. And here I'm not optimistic, mostly because HPFP is done by Toyota, but vehicles are sold by Scion. So Scion "failure" will cast less of a shadow on Toyota in the U.S., and that seems to be the only place this is happenning on a wide scale. And Subaru just doesn't sell enough volume, they are almost by default are better off by fixing few that fail under warranty. Also, I hear that a large percentage of BRZ buyers aren't repeat Subaru owners, so if they leave, not much harm.

So while I hope for a fix, I'm not too hopeful.

[Neziah]

I would still suggest that everyone have this issue logged with their local dealer. The more complaints the more likely it is to get some action.

On a side note, even when I get the crickets it is still quieter than my 2012 Hyundai's DI fuel system. ><

[Jace103]

786.1 miles - I'm sitting in the drive thru at McDonalds and i start hearing crickets in the grass, then I pull up to the window and realize they must have jumped into my engine bay.....just last night I was saying to myself thank god I don't have that annoying problem.

It sounds like hell! ahhhhhh!!!!! :mad026 0:

[Fenrir]

Good to know that if I'm ever having a bad day I can still come read this thread for a good laugh at how ridiculous you kids are.

On topic, I bought an exhaust and it drowns out the noise now. Problem solved? Problem solved.