Thoughts on tipping?

[pushrod]

Originally Posted by soulreapersteve

So I pretty much agree with Extra. The Dream does exist, you just have to endure and want to get there (picking a STEM field does help!)

That's only true for a subset of the population. Some people will never have the opportunity or the ability to create the opportunity for themselves to make a career switch or even a significant career improvement.

It's usually difficult for the people that succeeded in the "dream" to see how someone couldn't. Also, most "rags to riches" tales are complete bullshit.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by pushrod

That's only true for a subset of the population. Some people will never have the opportunity or the ability to create the opportunity for themselves to make a career switch or even a significant career improvement.

It's usually difficult for the people that succeeded in the "dream" to see how someone couldn't. Also, most "rags to riches" tales are complete bullshit.

I don't have some rags to riches tale...
But I didn't have anything handed to me, went to school and worked and lived off of crap until I got a good job.
I'm also a white male though, so that probably makes my story invalid.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by pushrod

That's only true for a subset of the population. Some people will never have the opportunity or the ability to create the opportunity for themselves to make a career switch or even a significant career improvement.

It sure is a lot easier just to say it's not possible, because then you don't even have to try.

[pushrod]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

It sure is a lot easier just to say it's not possible, because then you don't even have to try.

How sure are you that there doesn't exist a bad enough circumstance that even a STEM hero like you couldn't get yourself out of without help? Get real bud.

[GeorgeJFrick]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I was saying "right on!" for the most part but respectfully disagree with the part I emboldened. I don't think it's angry as much as brutally honest. I've been up, down, fortunately steadily up for many years now, but through it all, never a victim. It's a cruel world. All we can do is do our best to, how does it go? "Be the change we want to see." ...something like that.

But i's not them being a victim, it's a biased accusation. "Them" isn't involved. There is no waiter here whining about having to be a waiter. Only people saying if they don't like it, do something else. It makes a blanket categorical statement about a non-present third party. "If you have a problem, solve it". That's the base idea, and it adds nothing to any conversation but an attempt to externalize the solution while taking credit for it.

It's a brazen dismissal of others problems by implying they aren't important and/or significant (the problems, not the person).

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

It sure is a lot easier just to say it's not possible, because then you don't even have to try.

This reads like an argument fallacy to me. That is, you are suggesting only two choices: you either work hard and move up or "it's not possible".

I am suggesting people and life is more complicated than that and some people will not find it possible. Single mum 2 kids 3 part time jobs? Maybe she can get better training/more study but I don't like her chances. 50 year old male with scratchy employment history? I don't like his chances either. I am not saying that some people in those circumstances will not find better work, just that most will not.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

But i's not them being a victim, it's a biased accusation. "Them" isn't involved. There is no waiter here whining about having to be a waiter. Only people saying if they don't like it, do something else. It makes a blanket categorical statement about a non-present third party. "If you have a problem, solve it". That's the base idea, and it adds nothing to any conversation but an attempt to externalize the solution while taking credit for it.

It's a brazen dismissal of others problems by implying they aren't important and/or significant (the problems, not the person).

I don't think anyone here is dismissing their issues or thinks bring paid a crappy wage that has to be supplemented by tips is a good thing.

The "them" part comes in because they are the only ones who can change their situation.

This also adds nothing to the conversation as well... But whatever.

[GeorgeJFrick]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

I don't think anyone here is dismissing their issues or thinks bring paid a crappy wage that has to be supplemented by tips is a good thing.

The "them" part comes in because they are the only ones who can change their situation.

This also adds nothing to the conversation as well... But whatever.

My original post tried to add to the conversation by sharing my view on tipping and arguing that it might be better to give people the benefit of the doubt. They may be mid-way in the process of improving their situation. Making them miss rent because they brought you the wrong soda is not cool when combined with the statement "If they don't like it, get a better job". That's all I was trying to say... just a suggestion to be cool.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by pushrod

How sure are you that there doesn't exist a bad enough circumstance that even a STEM hero like you couldn't get yourself out of without help?

Straw man. I didn't say anything of the sort.

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

There is no waiter here whining about having to be a waiter.

But there is a line cook whining about waiters making more money than he does.

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

It's a brazen dismissal of others problems by implying they aren't important and/or significant (the problems, not the person).

No, it's a dismissal of the idea that how much money a waiter makes has anything at all to do with what a line cook makes, or that what a lawyer makes has anything to do with what a janitor makes, or that what a CEO makes has anything to do with what a schoolteacher makes. The line cook is focused on the fact that the waiter is making more than he is, which he thinks is unfair, rather than focusing on improving his own situation. That approach is 100% useless and will never improve his lot in life because it is scientifically unsound.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

My original post tried to add to the conversation by sharing my view on tipping and arguing that it might be better to give people the benefit of the doubt. They may be mid-way in the process of improving their situation. Making them miss rent because they brought you the wrong soda is not cool when combined with the statement "If they don't like it, get a better job". That's all I was trying to say... just a suggestion to be cool.

I was in the middle of reviewing while the conversation blew right past my question. I think I understand now that you were referring to the one-liner which I skipped because, well, it was insensitive and didn't add anything. I agree.

Aside from my run-on sentence, am I in the ballpark?

[Tcoat]

THIS IS THE STUPIDEST FUCKING SHIT STORM THREAD I EVER, EVER FUCKING SEEN.


I admit I did not read it all, have no bloody clue who is arguing what and really don't give a shit at this point. I got as far as "put on a suit and get another job" and gave up.

It is more than apparent that some of you guys have no clue what the cycle of poverty is and how it is a vicious trap that is not as simple to get out of as putting on a damn suit and getting another job.
I spent 3 decades of my life fighting that battle and you can not simply walk out of it.


That guy serving you your soup may be ten times as smart as you but their life has not had the breaks yours did so who the hell are you to make the call on what they "should" do. You think it is so damned easy then walk out of your current job and go immediately to one paying three times as much. Get back to me and tell me how that worked out for you.


I ALWAYS tip. I don't know what is going on in my server's life and know that I am not the centre of the fucking universe. If I get good service they get more. If bad they get less. Writing them notes critiquing them or lipping off to the manager is just total douchbaggery. So they didn't bring you what you wanted the second you wanted or made a simple mistake that is world shattering to you but doesn't mean shit to others. They are still people just trying to feed their family and maybe, just maybe, they had an off moment when serving your royal highnesses.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

But there is a line cook whining about waiters making more money than he does.

And there's a stubborn, ignorant, know it all who is a lost cause. Thinks he's educated but in reality is far from it.

It's okay Tai Lopez keep pointing to your book shelf.

KNAWLEDGE.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I admit I did not read it all, have no bloody clue who is arguing what and really don't give a shit at this point. I got as far as "put on a suit and get another job" and gave up.

Who said that? I missed it.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You think it is so damned easy then walk out of your current job and go immediately to one paying three times as much. Get back to me and tell me how that worked out for you.

Who said it was easy? Who said they would walk right out of one job and into another making three times as much? I missed that also.

It would help if you would quote the people you're talking about, because skimming back over the thread, I can't find it.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Who said that? I missed it.



Who said it was easy? Who said they would walk right out of one job and into another making three times as much? I missed that also.

It would help if you would quote the people you're talking about, because skimming back over the thread, I can't find it.

I just got here, but here we go!

Most of that is implied. When anyone complains about what they do or their pay, a common phrase/saying is and has been for as long as I've been alive (not that long) is, "If you don't like it, get another job!"

Don't take yourself so seriously, and maybe give empathy for the less fortunate a try.

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