Spec Twin?

[ApexEight]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

Yes I have them.

Doesn't matter in Spec. Everyone has to play on the same platform. You know, the whole idea of spec


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Uh, no shit lol. It's not like getting or installing the bushings is difficult, so what's the problem? Do you not think they're a good mod or something?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ApexEight

Uh, no shit lol. It's not like getting or installing the bushings is difficult, so what's the problem? Do you not think they're a good mod or something?

Not everyone has the knowledge or aptitude or tools or facilities. Those $50 bushings could easily cost near $200 for someone to have put in their car.

While it's a minor thing to pick on we're definitely not describing a true spec class especially with what people have claimed to know that you can run it in 'partial' prep which means no off the showroom floor model should have an advantage over full prep which means comparing the tS with 7.5" and the '17+ suspension and +5hp and gearing and the TRD equipped cars etc.

A true spec class would be:
Springs and dampers from base '13-'16 FR-S (P/N's xxxx)
Factory crash bolts
All else stock

And then you'll have people checking alignment before buying cars to run the class for max negative up front and even camber in the back and dyno-ing multiple sets of dampers and on and on if the rewards are there.

[ApexEight]

I'd be surpised to find anyone running in this proposed Spec class having issues with installing the inserts, but I guess there always are exceptions.

I just don't get the point the other guy was trying to make about them being stupid and adding complexity. I think allowing them would ne neither of those things, and would actually be very attractive, and would further carve out the class as a niche between DS and STX.

[Biggins]

I hope we still have the option to be classed in CS/DS because this and some other threads on this topic keep pushing me toward getting the MCS and just obeying the normal "Street" rules... or finding a co-drive.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by ApexEight

It was just a rough outline lol.

I don't think most are able to achieve -2.5 with just crash and camber bolts, which is why I would want plates.

Remember the early Koni yellow "excess camber" issue? Before the centering washers, those (actually a whisker higher) were the numbers people were able to get with just OE crash bolts. Camber bolts will be enough.

Another vote for keeping it simpler.

[ApexEight]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

Remember the early Koni yellow "excess camber" issue? Before the centering washers, those (actually a whisker higher) were the numbers people were able to get with just OE crash bolts. Camber bolts will be enough.

Another vote for keeping it simpler.

I am not familiar. I'll do some researching. Feel free to expand upon it though. I was under the impression that crash bolts and camber bolts max out in the low 2.0 degree range. I also like the idea of keeping things simple but would still want the mods to be substantial enough to be worthwhile or else I don't see many moving from Street.

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by ApexEight

I.... or else I don't see many moving from Street.

I think it will depend on how the twins perform in DS at Nationals.

[DaWorstPlaya]

1st of all I hope this Spec class thing doesn't take off. It adds more classes, diluting the pool and creates a one off ruleset. What happens when participation numbers for the spec class drop because everyone has moved on to the next greatest thing?

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

Really, I'd be perfectly happy with an oil cooler allowance for DS, to alleviate worry for track day participation.

Open camber bolt rules would be a preferable in between too,

^This! I think any mod that improves tire wear and improves reliability on the track without impacting performance should be allowed in Street. I think street classes should allow camber bolts on one side of the car. Like the 1 sway bar rule. I'm getting sick of constantly flipping tires. The cost of camber bolts would more than cover the cost of mounting and remounting tires.

Eg: Oil coolers, larger than stock oil pans, brake cooler ducts, should be allowed in street, IMHO.

I'm still kind of bitter the camber adjustment rule didn't make it into street when they decided to move everything from stock. If there is anything that needs more camber, it street cars on stock suspension with sticky tires.

Originally Posted by Locust

The logistics of this sound way too complicated. I think it would be better for them to just create a new street class, move D-H down a letter, and pull some of the current C and D cars into the new D.

If you look at class participation at nationals they have several street classes that are overly represented vs. the others.

I agree adding a stock class makes more sense than adding a spec class. Spread the cars out by performance in those classes. It's logical and it makes sense.

[Shark_Bait88]

Whiteline camber bolts, and other aftermarket options, can get significantly more camber than the OEM crash bolts.

It's enough that I think it'd be a great option for a spec class, because it keeps costs down (1/10 or less of the price of camber plates) and still will get enough camber to help with tire wear and those who do track days as well. Also makes the setup simpler, and no chance of people worrying about having one certain camber plate over another. I say a spec bolt (Whiteline or SPC) would be the way to go, if there's to be a solution for front camber.

[Shneegle]

Id think you would take the CS/DS rule set and add spec items to make a spec twin class. So keep in mind that CS/DS would allow:
- 200TW tires minimum
- Open brake pads
- intake filter

Then sprinkle in some spec items like:
- Spec dampers (OTS Yellows or something similar)
- Spec lowering spring
- Spec camber plate (or like anything aside from the Raceseng Cascam plate)
- Spec sway bar front (keep OEM rear)


And you have yourself a spec Twin class that is pretty much CS/DS+ go to much further and you are into a light STX build.

[imnotsureaboutbrz]

So what's the perk or advantage of this hypothetical "Spec Twin" class? Especially for SCCA regions/groups (like mine) where there are few 86's being ran...

[edj]

Originally Posted by imnotsureaboutbrz

So what's the perk or advantage of this hypothetical "Spec Twin" class? Especially for SCCA regions/groups (like mine) where there are few 86's being ran...

it removes the idea that you were beaten because somebody out spent you on
setting up the car. in theory, everybody has the same setup so the "only"
difference is the driver.

ymmv.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by imnotsureaboutbrz

So what's the perk or advantage of this hypothetical "Spec Twin" class? Especially for SCCA regions/groups (like mine) where there are few 86's being ran...

Classing stability. No more course/weather dependency putting us in a position where we can't possibly beat the other cars in our class. No more significant overdogs being thrown in with one of the most popular models in autocross.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by imnotsureaboutbrz

So what's the perk or advantage of this hypothetical "Spec Twin" class? Especially for SCCA regions/groups (like mine) where there are few 86's being ran...

For what I would imagine would be a typical regional alaska event (that is, small enough that index is the major measure), the benefit would be a slightly more specific index to work from. Whether or not that index would be more accurate is a different question. But it would be more specific. And that at least teases with the implied promise of it not being terribly unfair.

Otherwise, I would expect no adverse impact. Just might be another low-turnout class for you locally. I can't imagine you have deep classes in much of anything that isn't a larger index class anyhow. What do you do about 1-car classes now?