What is this black box .....??

[Turkish]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Thus, the resonator helps to make the engine paradoxically quieter and more powerful."

So, by deleting the resonator from the OEM airbox, I would be reducing the power from the FA20?

[Enthalpy]

Originally Posted by Symmetrical

Yeah after seeing a bunch of his posts, all he wants to do is look superior to everyone. Everybody could appreciate a knowledgeable person, sure, but to always come off as a Mr. Know-it-All is really getting old.

I don't get that vibe myself in this specific thread, because he made valid points.

Originally Posted by Turkish

So, by deleting the resonator from the OEM airbox, I would be reducing the power from the FA20?

Highly doubt it.

[TRD-X]

Originally Posted by Symmetrical

Yeah after seeing a bunch of his posts, all he wants to do is look superior to everyone. Everybody could appreciate a knowledgeable person, sure, but to always come off as a Mr. Know-it-All is really getting old.

Well I'm just here to learn something I might not know about the FR-S and check out all the cool mods......

[Turkish]

[QUOTE=Enthalpy;1Highly doubt it.[/QUOTE]

That's what my thoughts were, I just wanted to confirm.


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Symmetrical

Yeah after seeing a bunch of his posts, all he wants to do is look superior to everyone. Everybody could appreciate a knowledgeable person, sure, but to always come off as a Mr. Know-it-All is really getting old.

I don't claim to know it all, I just take the view that there's not a simple explanation for some things.

In the context of this thread, yes the intake resonator for a BMW 3-Series may be different from a 5-Series, but what is the target audience for the car? More importantly, resonators are not about reducing sound... much like aerodynamic lift on a car, the reverse of it is often labeled as "downforce" when it should be named negative lift.

Resonators are used to achieve a desired intake noise. Whether that's lower/higher is a part of that, but to say resonators are used to lower intake sound as a blanket statement is adding to the common misconception.

But if you want to join the personal attack bandwagon like everyone else, go for it. I judge you by your individual posts, I don't make wholesale judgments on your character by what you collectively post online.

To each their own.

-alex

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I don't claim to know it all, I just take the view that there's not a simple explanation for some things.

In the context of this thread, yes the intake resonator for a BMW 3-Series may be different from a 5-Series, but what is the target audience for the car? More importantly, resonators are not about reducing sound... much like aerodynamic lift on a car, the reverse of it is often labeled as "downforce" when it should be named negative lift.

Resonators are used to achieve a desired intake noise. Whether that's lower/higher is a part of that, but to say resonators are used to lower intake sound as a blanket statement is adding to the common misconception.

But if you want to join the personal attack bandwagon like everyone else, go for it. I judge you by your individual posts, I don't make wholesale judgments on your character by what you collectively post online.

To each their own.

-alex

The problem is that you keep saying there is something more to the resonator, but have not been able to prove it even after I showed you 2 cars using the same exact engine, producing the same HP and TQ numbers.

All you are throwing is simple unsupportable speculation as to how a resonator is used by a company.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

The problem is that you keep saying there is something more to the resonator, but have not been able to prove it even after I showed you 2 cars using the same exact engine, producing the same HP and TQ numbers.

All you are throwing is simple unsupportable speculation as to how a resonator is used by a company.

I'm not going to go back and quote myself on this. You can read what I wrote.

I am speculating. And in case you missed it, you're speculating as much as I am.

Two identical engines and identical peak horsepower/torque numbers does not mean the engines have the exact same tune... it may be very close but there may be minor differences.

BMW isn't stupid... the same engine used in a heavier car (5-series) would have a different projected consumption and warranty requirements over the expected lifespan of the model. The easiest way to make changes to this is to fine tune the engine powerband...

That's all I am saying. If you continue to read it as me throwing out unsubstantiated speculations, so be it.

-alex

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I'm not going to go back and quote myself on this. You can read what I wrote.

I am speculating. And in case you missed it, you're speculating as much as I am.

Two identical engines and identical peak horsepower/torque numbers does not mean the engines have the exact same tune... it may be very close but there may be minor differences.

BMW isn't stupid... the same engine used in a heavier car (5-series) would have a different projected consumption and warranty requirements over the expected lifespan of the model. The easiest way to make changes to this is to fine tune the engine powerband...

That's all I am saying. If you continue to read it as me throwing out unsubstantiated speculations, so be it.

-alex

The engine was also used on the X5, which is a LOT heavier than a 5 series, and it doesn't have a resonator... So that nulls and voids your heavier thus requiring a resonator argument.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Just because it's TRD doesn't mean it's Toyota's aftermarket gift to this car.
-alex

Huh?
TRD is Toyota's in house developed performance/aftermarket parts.
If this is not what Toyota meant for their version of a performance intake what is?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

The engine was also used on the X5, which is a LOT heavier than a 5 series, and it doesn't have a resonator... So that nulls and voids your heavier thus requiring a resonator argument.

I never said a heavier chassis requires a resonator. I'm merely stating that there may be design goals we're not aware of beyond just sound. Please understand that this is my only point.

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

Huh?
TRD is Toyota's in house developed performance/aftermarket parts.
If this is not what Toyota meant for their version of a performance intake what is?

I feel this is distracting from the thread but I'll just answer:

TRD's aftermarket parts are what Toyota feels they can sell to car owners while retaining a warranty. Depending on the territory they can also be street legal if required (CARB E.O. comes to mind, for example).

However, given that they are restricted by what they can/cannot do to the ECU (they can't simply reflash the ECU, for example, because it may make the car be in non-compliance of emissions laws), there's always some type of constraint that prevents the part from being the best that it can be.

Often times aftermarkets are better performance at a cheaper price than the OEM "racing" version of the same part, because a lot less money was spent on R&D for regulation compliance and more R&D was spent on outright performance.

-alex

[TRD-X]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I never said a heavier chassis requires a resonator. I'm merely stating that there may be design goals we're not aware of beyond just sound. Please understand that this is my only point.



I feel this is distracting from the thread but I'll just answer:

TRD's aftermarket parts are what Toyota feels they can sell to car owners while retaining a warranty. Depending on the territory they can also be street legal if required (CARB E.O. comes to mind, for example).

However, given that they are restricted by what they can/cannot do to the ECU (they can't simply reflash the ECU, for example, because it may make the car be in non-compliance of emissions laws), there's always some type of constraint that prevents the part from being the best that it can be.

Often times aftermarkets are better performance at a cheaper price than the OEM "racing" version of the same part, because a lot less money was spent on R&D for regulation compliance and more R&D was spent on outright performance.

-alex

Dude I'm tired of your lack of knowledge learn before you speak there's guys here that's been modding cars for years and your trying to school them.

All TRD parts are 50-state Emissions Legal.

Toyota dealers reflash the ECU's everyday.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by TRD-X

Dude I'm tired of your lack of knowledge learn before you speak there's guys here that's been modding cars for years and your trying to school them.

All TRD parts are 50-state Emissions Legal.

Toyota dealers reflash the ECU's everyday.

I'm not trying to school anyone. Please go back and read what I wrote... "depending on the territory" implies that it can be street legal in places like California (and for the most part the rest of the country), but not meet other regulations in, say, the UK or Germany.

1) Intakes are mostly street legal, but not all TRD parts are street legal. Some intakes in other countries may not meet local requirements. If it's street legal it just means the manufacturer has taken the necessary steps to meet emissions requirements.

http://www.toyotaracing.com/trd/cata...g_lowres_R.pdf (last page)

2) Toyota dealers do reflash ECUs every day, but that's not my point. Is there a specific ECU reflash that is supposed to be done with an intake install? If not, the R&D was put into the intake itself to work with the OEM ECU flash, hence the higher cost of the TRD intake versus a comparable aftermarket design.

A Toyota dealer reflashing a Toyota manufacturer approved ECU flash, versus Toyota offering a ECU reflash that is not in emissions compliance are two completely different matters. The former almost always have to be approved by the EPA prior to being sent to dealers, the latter requires extensive testing to make sure it doesn't change some other parameter of the car excessively.



As a closing note, I'm not going to edit anything I've written in this thread. People can read it and figure out if I'm blowing hot air out of my ass or not. And I'm definitely not schooling anyone with wrong/misleading info, contrary to what has been claimed.

-alex