A letter to the Dealership Manager...

[TanMan]

Folks, thanks for all your inputs, both the supporters of the letter and the naysayers. I don't have time arguing my rational for those of you who see this as pointless as others here like Sho, Rampage, Subienate and ngab have typed the responses right off my fingertips and I could not have argued better but both sides have valid points!

This is what you guys are here for:

The Owner/Manager responded and UNFORTUNATELY, it IS a cookie cutter response or, bullpoop as some of you may call it, albeit very diplomatic one. Here is the first paragraph:

" In all honesty, I have not seen nor heard of any issues whatsoever with BRZ products. We have sold approximately 15 to date (the most in the Southwest) and not one has come into the dealership for any repair whatsoever... let alone those you described below. I'm at a complete loss as to what people are indicating about the car. If there were vehicle issues, I would be open and honest... however, a lack of any issues has been our experience. Furthermore, I would be EXTREMELY cautious in utilizing any online forums for technical expertise or decision making... My experience in the forums is 99% of what's stated is misrepresented, assumptions, and/or outright mistruths when it comes to any sense or understanding of the technical operation of vehicles (I read these forums from time to time and cringe at the information published to be fact when it is truly pure speculation without a justifiable basis)."

So here's the dealio. I am rather disappointed with this response. Either the owner/manager is outright unaware that the BRZ has these issues or he is calling me a liar. I think my mind is already made up but something in me feel this isn't right and I will be sending a response soon. Here's where I will need your help:


1) For those of you who are experiencing the CEL and other major engine issues, would you be so kind as to provide your name and the dealership (Subaru or SCion) that is doing your warranty work? I am particularly interested to see who has brought their car in, here in the East valley of Phoenix AZ.


2) Can anyone provide actual TSB or work order numbers that I can help the manager reference? We need to proof this is the real world we are talking about. As you all know, everything you see in this forum is covered in "mistruths". (end of sarcasm)
(And no, I don't have time to SEARCH, as I have other real world issues that will need my attention tonight....I want real case or TSB # when your car has actually being brought in...by the real world you (?) Kidding aside, I need real references!


3) I am a noob here, so if you have friends on here (or in the real world ) who are having this CEL, engine shudder, loss of power, rough idle nightmare, please point them to this thread or PM me.


Lastly, anyone has a direct contact email to someone higher up in corporate Subaru? Let me know. The last I searched on Subaru's website, the "contact us" page simply took me to a "Feedback" form which I think, will stop right at the customer service level and won't go any higher.

Thanks

[sho220]

Originally Posted by TanMan

Either the owner/manager is outright unaware that the BRZ has these issues or he is calling me a liar.

I would lean more towards them being clueless than them calling you a liar. They are in the business to sell cars and make money...they know little to nothing about the product they sell....and I guarantee the first thing running through their mind when a customer pulls out a bunch of printed out forum posts is "great...another f'ing know-it-all is trying to tell me how to do my job"...not a good way to start off a dealer visit.

Things like this need to be handled very delicately. You have to drop hints, and subtle suggestions, and kind of lead them to the solution. This way, they'll think they're a genius and they figured it out all on their own, and they won't feel offended by you telling them how to do their job.

[Jaxxx]

I agree that the letter should be delivered to subaru Corporate, not surprised on how the manager responded at all.

[TanMan]

Sho, agreed.

For those still on the waiting list, does this give you guys some glimmer of hope?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17158

If truly only a certain batch (VIN 26%% to 27%%) are affected, is there a official source from Subaru that supports this?

[DaJo]

Originally Posted by TanMan

Sho, agreed.

For those still on the waiting list, does this give you guys some glimmer of hope?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17158

If truly only a certain batch (VIN 26%% to 27%%) are affected, is there a official source from Subaru that supports this?

Obviously not true; take a look at this thread...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=CEL+idle+dip

[20valvewynn83]

The only way a Dealership will have knowledge of the problem is if they have seen th problem come into the Dealership or second they are members of this forum. As I work for a Dealership I am one of the only people that know of concerns. I just had another technician ask me about check engine lights on the FRS/BRZ because his friend had an issue. You also talk about TSB' but I was in the system yesterday and we have no other TSB other then the daytime running lights. Well that's to my knowledge and I couldn't find anything else.

[dori.]

Like others said, it is very possible that they don't know about the problems yet.

Because contrary to what you may believe, the issues, while severe, aren't actually widespread.

Looking at the pool of BRZ/FR-S owners you have to realize that not all of them post on the forum and further, not all of them have the CEL issue.

Combined (between BRZ/FR-S) there have been about 8000 cars sold in the US. On the forum about 75 people (not all from the US, mind) have reported the CEL issue. Even if you take into account the people that have the problem that don't post, the CEL affects about 1% of the cars here. So it is not unreasonable that the dealer hasn't heard of it.

Now my advice to you is, if you really don't want to deal with this issue, WAIT. Unless this car was to be your only means of transportation in the near future I think you can wait a couple months or even until the next model year when everything's sorted out.

I mean, what if the dealer DID know about the CEL issue? How would that stop them from selling you a car that could potentially develop it?

[TouchMyHonda]

this is poopie.

[ashtray]

Dude, seriously - what?!!

I put a $20 deposit down on a new TV at Best Buy. Supposed to come in next week. But I see on the net people are having issues with this TV, so I wrote a long letter to the manager at Best Buy stating my displeasure with the TV I haven't even bought, and demand answers as to what he's going to do about it. That's pretty much how your letter reads, except for a car.

If the dealership won't give you your deposit back, then you can go into reasons etc. but the dealer is just the point of sales and service station - they're not making the car. You need to take this up with Subaru.

Dear Subaru: I had a deposit on a new BRZ but reading about people's issues on the Internet has scared me away. What are you going to do about it?

Well guess what? Subaru knows the issues. When the cars get the CEL and need fixing, the dealers are calling SOA. SOA is paying for the repairs, not the dealer. So Subaru knows about each and every car that has come in to be fixed. And since they don't want to be fixing every car they sell, they're looking in to why there is an issue and how to fix it.

Your letter is pointless, but sending it to Subaru might get you a generic letter back and a $100 off your next Subaru coupon. If enough people write letters, then Subaru might make a blanket statement to the automotive press like: "We're aware of some first year issues with the BRZ and we're looking in to it. Get off our backs. We'll let you know when we've figured it out."

[whitejdm]

Totally agree with Ashtray, have consumers deteriorated to the point where they're sending angry letters on products they haven't even purchased yet? People are acting like this car is already off warranty and everyone is getting screwed by the evil dealerships. First run cars almost always have teething problems. 458 Italias are still burning to the ground for crying out loud hahaha

[jimbobrand]

I honestly wouldn't be scared of buying a new BRZ or FR-S. As others have stated, the CEL and idle issues seem big because the people with issues are making the most noise over it, but those of us who aren't having issues are quiet.

8,500 miles on my car since June 2nd and the only thing on your list I've experienced has been the chirping. Having owned and driven other direct injection cars can tell you that those cars make very similar noises.

[zc06_kisstherain]

Originally Posted by ashtray

Dude, seriously - what?!!

I put a $20 deposit down on a new TV at Best Buy. Supposed to come in next week. But I see on the net people are having issues with this TV, so I wrote a long letter to the manager at Best Buy stating my displeasure with the TV I haven't even bought, and demand answers as to what he's going to do about it. That's pretty much how your letter reads, except for a car.

If the dealership won't give you your deposit back, then you can go into reasons etc. but the dealer is just the point of sales and service station - they're not making the car. You need to take this up with Subaru.

Dear Subaru: I had a deposit on a new BRZ but reading about people's issues on the Internet has scared me away. What are you going to do about it?

Well guess what? Subaru knows the issues. When the cars get the CEL and need fixing, the dealers are calling SOA. SOA is paying for the repairs, not the dealer. So Subaru knows about each and every car that has come in to be fixed. And since they don't want to be fixing every car they sell, they're looking in to why there is an issue and how to fix it.

Your letter is pointless, but sending it to Subaru might get you a generic letter back and a $100 off your next Subaru coupon. If enough people write letters, then Subaru might make a blanket statement to the automotive press like: "We're aware of some first year issues with the BRZ and we're looking in to it. Get off our backs. We'll let you know when we've figured it out."

i tried to write nicely to show this point but you wrote straight.

yeah. WAIT or buy it and warranty will fix it.

[xwd]

They won't answer question #1 until the warranty work needs to be done.

They won't answer question #2 because the dealership will have absolutely no clue on earth what they are doing in the Japanese plant.

Also the dealerships don't always control #1, you are better off working through SoA either regionally or nationally to get better taken care of. SoA has regional reps you can talk to regarding warranty repairs.

[drifter]

Originally Posted by TanMan

1) For those of you who are experiencing the CEL and other major engine issues, would you be so kind as to provide your name and the dealership (Subaru or SCion) that is doing your warranty work? I am particularly interested to see who has brought their car in, here in the East valley of Phoenix AZ.

What I would have done if I was that concerned; gathered this info first to have eliminated their response, sent to corporate with cc to dealership