Toyota 860

[kakacarrotcake]

I just want them to make more in that Lunar Storm color

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Know why they called it the 860?

Because when you see it you do an 860 and walk away.

That's a lot of spinning...

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

And no PP wheels apparently



RS 1.0 had TRD sways, shocks and exhaust. And a TRD steering wheel if you want to count that.

The 2.0 had no performance though right? I dont recall any but never read much about it myself

[Shinchu]

Yep it had trd entire catalog of parts on it.
Exhaust, intake, springs, sways, wheels... not sure about dampers though.

Super nice option just not into yelllow. There is a guy on naval base san diego who had one. Might have been a lease because out of nowhere, its gone and now its a white 2016 frs that parks in that spot. Im just like duuuuude why!!?!! Unless he put it in a time capsule and bought a new frs for daily lol

[KalbiCool88]

Sounds like another disappointment from Toyota lol.

[Overdrive]

I really see this as sort of a rehashing of the "First 86" program as a way fo welcoming the car as a Toyota, only without the ability to make-to-order and get first dibs. Any time you make a special edition of anything with a limited number of units, you're going to attract those people who just want it because of that added level of rarity, even if it's something as silly as a unique interior color or a unique audio setup. Fools and their money...

As much as enthusiasts, who this car was originally built to attract (who have mostly all bought theirs and either had their fill or still have theirs) would like every "special"/"limited" edition of a car to be more powerful or have other performance tweaks, the people willing to spend another 5 grand on a basically unchanged car don't typically care about that. They just want to be able to say it's 1 of XXX made, and probably won't ever put the car through its paces to see what it can really do.

For those of us who don't get the wool pulled over our eyes and are well aware that this is a car built by Subaru with a little Toyota shot calling (I have actually encountered a situation where a Subaru parts counter worker insisted that the cars were not the same), we know that this was basically Toyota saying to Suabru "take a handful of BRZ-destined chassis and throw the Toyota face on them, but keep the higher priced bits in there, please and thank you" with plans to sell them to those who don't know any better and just want a limited model, OR those who want the BRZ's nice bits but don't want a BRZ.

I'm all for being simple and saving weight by not cramming my sports car full of luxury bits I don't want or need. That's just my personal taste, and I like that Toyota went that route and let Subaru be the easily overpriced version after a few option box checks. GM was the same way when they made the Camaro and Firebird together, although in that situation I liked the more expensive one better. My 20 year old sports car doesn't even have cup holders (which weren't a foreign thing in 1997), and that's fine with me because I don't have any temptations to drink anything while driving it. It keeps me busy enough with, y'know, driving it. Sure it's a nice-to-have, and almost a standard thing these days, but not at all a necessity. If I wanted any of that push-button start, seat warmers, leather seats, etc., I'd have bought a Lexus IS, or maybe an MX-5. Nothing wrong with wanting power/handling and comfort btw, to whoever asked it a little earlier...that's basically what Lexus exists to provide. But you usually don't get power/handling and comfort together without a lot of added cost, something else Lexus is known for. Pick any two of the three things, and accepting that you're not able to affect the third in the way you'd like to is really what it comes down to. If we want the 86 to stay fun, it also has to stay simple, and light.

The FR-S/86 (at least in the U.S.) has always been touted as fun at a low cost, something we really just don't get anymore in general from any brand. And if we do get it, it's usually only as a FWD hatchback. But given time and enough complaints from people that it's "cheap inside" and doesn't have enough this or that (like the C5 and C6 Corvette, even though those still sold like hotcakes) or doesn't have enough power because you lost in a straight line to [insert everyday car here], the 86 is going to go the way of the RX-7, Supra, and NSX, and get larger, fatter, and more costly with each generation as people demand more crap be stuffed inside, losing that lightweight well-handling car feel, and it'll become the Hyundai Genesis. Sure they may (finally) give it more power to compensate for that, but you're not really seeing the benefit of that power when the car starts to weight 3100 lbs. and more as you would when it was 2800.

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by finch1750

The 2.0 had no performance though right? I dont recall any but never read much about it myself

I think you're right in that the 2.0 didn't have anything to it for performance bumps. Pretty sure it was just cosmetics and luxury bits this time around. Unique paint (of course), unique interior color accents and microsuede everywhere, some of the BRZ norms like push-button start/HIDs, and then of course unique wheels, a little chin spoiler out front, flush deck lid one out back that didn't hang over the quarters like the stock one does. Oh, and a price no longer under $30k, too. Very much that more luxurious look and feel than the way they went with the RS 1.0.

I mean, I get it, if they want to sell more units, they'll have to soften the car up for people who can't deal with some road noise and a good jostling over imperfect roads. To those folks though, I say buy a used IS, or even an ES, and let the sports cars stay sporty.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

I mean, I get it, if they want to sell more units, they'll have to soften the car up for people who can't deal with some road noise and a good jostling over imperfect roads. To those folks though, I say buy a used IS, or even an ES, and let the sports cars stay sporty.

Or buy a 2017 Toyota 86. The "sports" part is unchanged, but it is a nicer car.

[Overdrive]

Personally, I didn't find the 86 all that softened up from the earlier car, so no, I wouldn't say that. Car still weighs about the same, has a negligible power bump for the manual equipped cars, and is otherwise unchanged besides the facelift and some aesthetic changes. Sure, more seat time may change my opinion, but I test drove a '17 86 a short while before testing a '16 FR-S (that I bought), and I didn't feel like they'd softened the car up. They drove essentially the same.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

They drove essentially the same.

That's what I said. They have, however, spent some time with sound insulation. It's a much quieter car inside, at least on good roads. And it is a bit more settled over things that would upset my FR-S. As I said, it's a nicer car. Other than that, same-same.

[Overdrive]

I guess my senses aren't all that refined enough to notice, or that I just don't really get bothered by road noise. I actually don't like being insulated from the world like one gets in a Lexus. Some people do, and that's great for them, but you don't usually accomplish sound insulation without adding weight, and sports cars don't like weight. Like I said, little by little it's going to end up doing what the RX-7 and Supra did in the name of refinement/comfort/trying to sell more to more people.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

I think you're right in that the 2.0 didn't have anything to it for performance bumps. Pretty sure it was just cosmetics and luxury bits this time around. Unique paint (of course), unique interior color accents and microsuede everywhere, some of the BRZ norms like push-button start/HIDs, and then of course unique wheels, a little chin spoiler out front, flush deck lid one out back that didn't hang over the quarters like the stock one does. Oh, and a price no longer under $30k, too. Very much that more luxurious look and feel than the way they went with the RS 1.0.

I mean, I get it, if they want to sell more units, they'll have to soften the car up for people who can't deal with some road noise and a good jostling over imperfect roads. To those folks though, I say buy a used IS, or even an ES, and let the sports cars stay sporty.

Nothing wrong with some fancy bits only. I wouldnt pay the extra myself but obviously people did and have been given how long they made RS tCs. Its not any softer then the regular one handleing wise so it isnt not sporty. The more twins they sell the better imo

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by finch1750

Nothing wrong with some fancy bits only. I wouldnt pay the extra myself but obviously people did and have been given how long they made RS tCs. Its not any softer then the regular one handleing wise so it isnt not sporty. The more twins they sell the better imo

No, it's not any softer, and I didn't mean to imply that with my statement (kinda been in a few post rant, lol) but it's pretty much the step before the cliff jump. There's nothing really wrong with it, but if people come to expect even a little luxury from a Toyota sports car, that'll quickly become problematic for the car. I feel like it'll force an identity change. As it stands, the RS 2.0 accomplished what it sets out to do, which is be a special edition that makes up maybe 10% of all the cars sold that year, and unique enough to stand out to those who pay a little attention. Is it worth an extra $5k? I don't think so, but as you said, someone out there did, and they bought them.

As I've been saying, I just don't want this car to turn into what the RX-7 did. Sure, the last gen is a great car, but when you look at where it started decades before that, it was just like the 86. Light, enough power, and great handling (for it's time). But after the first gen, it was never really the same. The Supra more or less went the same way when you look at a Celica Supra and a last gen Supra.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

No, it's not any softer, and I didn't mean to imply that with my statement (kinda been in a few post rant, lol) but it's pretty much the step before the cliff jump. There's nothing really wrong with it, but if people come to expect even a little luxury from a Toyota sports car, that'll quickly become problematic for the car. I feel like it'll force an identity change. As it stands, the RS 2.0 accomplished what it sets out to do, which is be a special edition that makes up maybe 10% of all the cars sold that year, and unique enough to stand out to those who pay a little attention. Is it worth an extra $5k? I don't think so, but as you said, someone out there did, and they bought them.

As I've been saying, I just don't want this car to turn into what the RX-7 did. Sure, the last gen is a great car, but when you look at where it started decades before that, it was just like the 86. Light, enough power, and great handling (for it's time). But after the first gen, it was never really the same. The Supra more or less went the same way when you look at a Celica Supra and a last gen Supra.

Yeah, I get it. But that happens with every car over time. Weight, luxury, then its just not the same. Look at the WRX even.

Just be glad you got one of the early ones before all that and just enjoy