Injector / seal failure or Miss-fire codes.. please post here

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by Carwhisperer

You ever Gotten P0456 ( very small emission leak ) and no it doesn't seem to be my cap. I've only gotten the P0351 once right before I started having the injector popping begin.

Nope, only P0351 while on track or redlining the motor a lot in the mountains.

[Synack]

Damn my car just had this issue as well. Good thing we caught it before anything bad happened. Parts should be in and installed by Friday I hope. Scared the shit outta me when I saw this thread.

[feldy]

Having the dealer pull the cylinder 1 injector and plug on my own dime. If there bad I'm making them fix it. Otherwise ill pay for the peace of mind. No codes. But little fire cracker sounds when crusing on the highway. Cant pinpoint it while I'm doing 75 down the highway. We will see what happens. On a automatic wondering if this maybe the first case. Currently on a 3000 mile road trip with 1800 out of the way so far.

[vgi]

@415FRS @Synack @feldy there is also a poll thread on this, so if you do have blown injectors pls vote:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38397

[trueno86power]

Results are out, the upper seal of the DI Injector 1 look like crap and will be replaced. The lower one was just about to burn and will be replaced. No damage to the plug what so ever. Tomorrow it will be re-tested and everything should be fine. Already got my flash update from Perrin to correct the problem.

[topazsparrow]

Originally Posted by trueno86power

Results are out, the upper seal of the DI Injector 1 look like crap and will be replaced. The lower one was just about to burn and will be replaced. No damage to the plug what so ever. Tomorrow it will be re-tested and everything should be fine. Already got my flash update from Perrin to correct the problem.

replaced under warranty?

[whitefrs]

Originally Posted by trueno86power

Results are out, the upper seal of the DI Injector 1 look like crap and will be replaced. The lower one was just about to burn and will be replaced. No damage to the plug what so ever. Tomorrow it will be re-tested and everything should be fine. Already got my flash update from Perrin to correct the problem.

Told u lol
Mines were the same and my plugs were bad as well

[trueno86power]

Originally Posted by topazsparrow

replaced under warranty?

Oh yeah sorry, everything on the warranty. But the tech is a friend of mine...

[rx3]

Originally Posted by Carwhisperer

You ever Gotten P0456 ( very small emission leak ) and no it doesn't seem to be my cap.

How do you know and what do you think it is?

[regal]

Mine is starting to give a rattle/raw exhaust sound from the engine over 5k in 3rd gear. I think it is a first sign? I was reading the interview on with the hot-shot designer of the twins and it was interesting to read that Subaru was adamant that DI wouldn't work on a boxer, was their practical knowledge more than Toyota's esteemed engineers?

Then it goes on to say that Toyotas inventor of the D4-S had to agree to cover all DI warranty before Subaru would allow this form of DI on their engine. Could this be the reason that dealers are refusing to pull injectors to check for bad seals? Is it why Subaru denied gsgMike's warranty?

Average drivers don't rev past 5k in 3rd gear (under more load than 2nd = more detonation prone.) If all drivers that actually rev their engines had the DI injectors pulled, the failure rate may be too staggering. There still hasn't been an US or Japan dealer OEM ECU flash update (the obscure south African one one was from several months ago.) Probably a lot more to it than that flash provides. They may have to change the tune to the point it doesn't meet their 160gCO km goals.

The only thing we can do as consumers is bring the issue to the OEM's attention, the facts point to the issue being much more widespread, just that the miles haven't been driven to give a complete o-ring degredation giving a CEL, they are slowing degrading probably on most all cars on the road.

Haven't seen one report of an injector pulled that was good.

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by regal

Mine is starting to give a rattle/raw exhaust sound from the engine over 5k in 3rd gear. I think it is a first sign? I was reading the interview on with the hot-shot designer of the twins and it was interesting to read that Subaru was adamant that DI wouldn't work on a boxer, was their practical knowledge more than Toyota's esteemed engineers?

Source link? I wouldn't expect anyone to know this, but I'm wondering: is he a powertrain guy, a suspension guy, a platform guy, or what?

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because Subaru has a completely different direct injection combustion system on their 2 liter turbo boxer in Japan. The only way that would have come about is if somebody in their advanced engineering department had been working on it for years, or they paid an outside engineering company to develop much of it (probably a little bit of both).

Then it goes on to say that Toyotas inventor of the D4-S had to agree to cover all DI warranty before Subaru would allow this form of DI on their engine. Could this be the reason that dealers are refusing to pull injectors to check for bad seals? Is it why Subaru denied gsgMike's warranty?

I guess this is a rhetorical question, but have you ever been exposed to the negotiations involved in a strategic alliance between OEM's? The higher-ups are basically frenemies and want the other side to take the financial responsibility for as much as possible. I wouldn't read anything technical into such an arrangement. As for the "Inventor" of D-4S, well it's been a joint venture between Yamaha and Toyota for over 10 years.

Average drivers don't rev past 5k in 3rd gear (under more load than 2nd = more detonation prone.) If all drivers that actually rev their engines had the DI injectors pulled, the failure rate may be too staggering. There still hasn't been an US or Japan dealer OEM ECU flash update (the obscure south African one one was from several months ago.) Probably a lot more to it than that flash provides. They may have to change the tune to the point it doesn't meet their 160gCO km goals.

Currently CO2 targets are on the NEDC cycle (not used in the USA) and I think the JC08 cycle (used only in Japan). I doubt the shift schedules would require WOT runs at high rpm.

NEDC used to certify in most countries.



JC08 test for Japan:

The only thing we can do as consumers is bring the issue to the OEM's attention, the facts point to the issue being much more widespread, just that the miles haven't been driven to give a complete o-ring degredation giving a CEL, they are slowing degrading probably on most all cars on the road.

The slow response could easily be attributed to corporate bureaucracy and low priority given to a low volume car.

Haven't seen one report of an injector pulled that was good.

This might be a time bomb, or most people will never have an issue and don't feel the need to post on the internet about this matter. Time will tell.

[regal]

Originally Posted by arghx7

Source link? I wouldn't expect anyone to know this, but I'm wondering: is he a powertrain guy, a suspension guy, a platform guy, or what?

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because Subaru has a completely different direct injection combustion system on their 2 liter turbo boxer in Japan. The only way that would have come about is if somebody in their advanced engineering department had been working on it for years, or they paid an outside engineering company to develop much of it (probably a little bit of both).



I guess this is a rhetorical question, but have you ever been exposed to the negotiations involved in a strategic alliance between OEM's? The higher-ups are basically frenemies and want the other side to take the financial responsibility for as much as possible. I wouldn't read anything technical into such an arrangement. As for the "Inventor" of D-4S, well it's been a joint venture between Yamaha and Toyota for over 10 years.



Currently CO2 targets are on the NEDC cycle (not used in the USA) and I think the JC08 cycle (used only in Japan). I doubt the shift schedules would require WOT runs at high rpm.

NEDC used to certify in most countries.



JC08 test for Japan:






The slow response could easily be attributed to corporate and low priority given to a low volume car.



This might be a time bomb, or most people will never have an issue and don't feel the need to post on the internet about this matter. Time will tell.

The interview with Tada on Toyotas website blog was where he talked about Subaru's refusal to use DI due to huge issues with it, its true that Subaru uses DI now but its not Toyotas D4-S. Subaru is very conservative with new technology, so its interesting that they dropped D4-S their first chance.


Yes time will tell but sooner we know the better so we can get real aggressive at tuning out this detonation with aftermarket tuning. Sometimes the enthusiasts fix things the OEMs won't due to the bureaucracy you mention.

I'm waiting on the first 20k mi DI injector pull with good seals, haven't seen one posted yet, actually every pull regardless of miles has had bad seals which is pretty concerning.

[wootwoot]

I haven't seen anyone with out symptoms pull their injectors..... Why would they? The injectors you have seen pulled went bad.... That's why they were pulled.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

I haven't seen anyone with out symptoms pull their injectors..... Why would they? The injectors you have seen pulled went bad.... That's why they were pulled.

I was typing a similar reply and just deleted it. I mean, people pulling their injectors have some type of symptom, they are not being pulled just because, so what else can we expect?

Of course most if not all of them will reveal some kind of issue.