CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[n0thing]

looking to upgrade the front sway bar to improve turn in/slalom s-turns response, and also to allow earlier throttle while preventing oversteer. is it true that I can mimic this setup by simply disconnecting the rear stock sway? this way, front will be stiffer than rear. i suppose it doesn't hurt to try it out, before spending $ and time to upgrade. this is for track use, not autox. current setup is kwv3 with 245/40r17 re71r

is it true that fast fwd cars lift inside rear wheel, while fast rwd cars lift inside front wheel?

[Gforce]

Yes. I fit a 20 mm front bar. It is pretty much a no brainer. Better turn in and better traction.

You can disconnect the rear bar but that will push roll stiffness too far forward. Going up in bar diameter by 2 mm changes the effective bar rate by quite a bit (roll bar spring rates change proportionally to changes in the diameter of the bar, all other factors remand the same, so 2mm increase from 18 mm to 20 mm is larger change than going from 20 mm up to 22 mm) . Going down from 13 mm to zero is a huge alteration.

Fitting rear springs from the 2017 model year will usefully reduce the rear roll rate, improve traction out of corners and give you a much better ride as well.

Your last statement is true if you're talking about improving the handling of relatively softly sprung road cars. It's not so much an objective as an unavoidable result of increasing the roll rates to accommodate getting more power to the ground.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by n0thing

looking to upgrade the front sway bar to improve turn in/slalom s-turns response, and also to allow earlier throttle while preventing oversteer. is it true that I can mimic this setup by simply disconnecting the rear stock sway? this way, front will be stiffer than rear. i suppose it doesn't hurt to try it out, before spending $ and time to upgrade. this is for track use, not autox. current setup is kwv3 with 245/40r17 re71r

is it true that fast fwd cars lift inside rear wheel, while fast rwd cars lift inside front wheel?

It's hard to be fast with one full contact patch off the ground.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

It's hard to be fast with one full contact patch off the ground.

Interestingly not so. You need to consider tire loading effects.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by n0thing

looking to upgrade the front sway bar to improve turn in/slalom s-turns response, and also to allow earlier throttle while preventing oversteer. is it true that I can mimic this setup by simply disconnecting the rear stock sway? this way, front will be stiffer than rear. i suppose it doesn't hurt to try it out, before spending $ and time to upgrade. this is for track use, not autox. current setup is kwv3 with 245/40r17 re71r

I wouldn't disconnect the rear swaybar to increase front end steering response or turn in.

Originally Posted by n0thing

is it true that fast fwd cars lift inside rear wheel, while fast rwd cars lift inside front wheel?

It can happen, but lifting a tire should not be the goal.

- Andrew

[n0thing]

From what I've read, you end up loading more weight on the other three tires when lifting an inside wheel, which has negligible grip anyways. Thus, the outside front tire has more grip for turning and the rear driven tires have more grip to power out. I suppose this applies to both autox and tracking, because physics don't change.

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

It's also important to remember that following that chart to decrease understeer or oversteer may or may not make the car faster. Case in point, adding a larger front sway bar to the BRZ/FRS may add a little at the limit understeer, but will increase overall grip.

- Andrew

An old quote I came across. Can you please explain how adding a larger front sway bar (with all else being the same?) will increase the overall grip?

Thanks

[DeaconRoc]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

What is your current wheel/tire combination?

Summer road wheels are 18x8 et35 with 225/40/18 Michelin PS4's
Winter road wheels are 17x8.5 et42 with 225/45/17 Nokian WRA4's
Track wheels are 17x7 et40 with 215/45/17 Michelin Cup 2's

[thetyrant]

Originally Posted by DeaconRoc

There is a meet on the 17th if your free - there'll be several different suspension set ups there such as Tein Flex A's and Monosports, Moton's, etc.

I've had the stock set up, stock set up with AST lowering springs (this was generally good), Meister R GT1's, Meister R Zeta R's (the customer service was good and all my money was refunded), Tein Flex A's (these are my favourite road and occasional track dampers - the HBS really does take the edge off when hitting the bump stops) and Moton Clubsports which I've run with rates from 4kg front, 3kg rear through to 9kg front and 14kg rear and am currently on 7kg front and 8kg rear (if you track much the Motons are excellent but overkill for road use imo).

Interesting thanks, im away on holiday week after that meet so not sure I will get down for it, but will try as be good to feel those setups, have you ridden in the car with Monosports ? or is owner on uk 86 forum etc do you know ?


Thanks

[DeaconRoc]

Originally Posted by thetyrant

Interesting thanks, im away on holiday week after that meet so not sure I will get down for it, but will try as be good to feel those setups, have you ridden in the car with Monosports ? or is owner on uk 86 forum etc do you know ?


Thanks

There'll be at least two cars with Monosports there and they're both on the Driver's Club (Keethos and Mike). Keethos' set up are on factory spring rates (8/9) and Mike's are reduced spring rates (6/7 maybe?). Keith's are newer though and I seem to remember Tein changing the valving a little at some point - Keith's seemed to ride better when I drove his car.

[Captain Snooze]

The spring rate at the wheel is always less at the rear given equal front and rear spring rates. If the rear rates are less than the front then there is even a greater difference at the wheels.
For example 6k springs front and rear give you rate at the wheel of approximately 4.9k and 3.4k.

[DeaconRoc]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Would you tell me/us what those suspension set ups were?

Post #3166 above 👍

[DeaconRoc]

Originally Posted by thetyrant

Interesting thanks, im away on holiday week after that meet so not sure I will get down for it, but will try as be good to feel those setups, have you ridden in the car with Monosports ? or is owner on uk 86 forum etc do you know ?


Thanks

Also, I've seen you post up on the Owners forum but you may get more responses on the driver's forum 👍

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by DeaconRoc

Post #3166 above 👍

Holy shit!! Same page too!!
Sorry about that.

[DeaconRoc]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Holy shit!! Same page too!!
Sorry about that.

No worries. If you want any other details just let me know 👍