Do you want a turbo engine for the FT-86? Read here

[Ramo]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Petition will not change this car to magically having a turbo for its premier, or even second, and probably 3rd year of release from the factory. But if it makes you feel better...

3 years? For a turbo? Man, we are discussing about a component that for Subaru is a joke to install. Toyota/Subaru need years to develp a car. But this is not true for a little mods like adding a Turbocharger...

Do you think, for example that VW, BMW, Mercedes etc etc make experiments with their car everytime they launch a new engine? No they don't: they make a good chasis that can simply be adopted also for more powerfull engines... (M, AMG etc etc are another issue)

Then, I can wait also another 6/12 months for a turbo FT-86. Bur 3 years... it is too much...

[Ramo]

Originally Posted by Laika

Very true for the E60 but you're dead wrong about the "previous" (e39) M5. They were only available as a 6 speed no matter what part of the world you lived in.

I'm speaking about E60 and F10 generations. :-D

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Ramo

3 years? For a turbo? Man, we are discussing about a component that for Subaru is a joke to install. Toyota/Subaru need years to develp a car. But this is not true for a little mods like adding a Turbocharger...

Do you think, for example that VW, BMW, Mercedes etc etc make experiments with their car everytime they launch a new engine? No they don't: they make a good chasis that can simply be adopted also for more powerfull engines... (M, AMG etc etc are another issue)

Then, I can wait also another 6/12 months for a turbo FT-86. Bur 3 years... it is too much...

First Model Year won't have a turbo option. It's already been stated by Subaru that turboing goes against the car's inherent design and ideology. That being said, its not out of the question down the road...it never is.

2nd Model Year at the earliest, if they're already working on a turbo variant on the side. The engine would have to be tested, tweaked, and tuned to make sure it passes current emissions while also not sacrificing long-term reliability. That's why I say 3 years, optimistic.

I would expect a turbo version Subaru side to come out in tandem or slightly after the new WRX separate line of car's comes out with its own STi version of the new engine. There's not even a stated timeframe on when the EJ will be phased out from that car's lineup, but it will, in the near future. Now -THAT- being said...its rumored (or confirmed, couldn't tell ya, ask Ichi) that the new WRX's during this timeframe will be using a 2.0L. If, infact, that is the same 2.0L used in the 216a, I'm highly skeptical that Subaru would offer the same engine setup out of its flagship sports car for one that doesn't have AWD. The 216a is doing the same thing the FT-86 is doing; offering an entry level sports car...affordable.

Oh, and they stated that STi (shut up ichi, this is how I type it, I am OldSkool) is more than likely, but turbo is not. Just all the signs point to no rush or eagerness to turbocharge the car, hence the few years down the line bit on ever possibly seeing one.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

id rather have a factory turbo, with a warranty....vs a aftermarket turbo kit that voids my warranty.Id rather have the manufacturer do the research and take the necessary steps to making a reliable turbocharged engine..vs tuning and rebuilding a brand new engine to accept forced induction.

While i could care less about forced induction at this point. Signing a petition is actually a good way to get the attention of the manufacturers corporate office and marketing department who crunch numbers. If there are a good amount of people who want a turbocharged car and the demographics of the consumer are just right, and makes them money. They would be stupid not to play a hand, and would be bad for business if they ignored a decently sized petition. This is how the consumers can turn the tables into getting what we want VS the Manufacturer telling us what we want/should want.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

First Model Year won't have a turbo option. It's already been stated by Subaru that turboing goes against the car's inherent design and ideology. That being said, its not out of the question down the road...it never is.

2nd Model Year at the earliest, if they're already working on a turbo variant on the side. The engine would have to be tested, tweaked, and tuned to make sure it passes current emissions while also not sacrificing long-term reliability. That's why I say 3 years, optimistic.

I would expect a turbo version Subaru side to come out in tandem or slightly after the new WRX separate line of car's comes out with its own STi version of the new engine. There's not even a stated timeframe on when the EJ will be phased out from that car's lineup, but it will, in the near future. Now -THAT- being said...its rumored (or confirmed, couldn't tell ya, ask Ichi) that the new WRX's during this timeframe will be using a 2.0L. If, infact, that is the same 2.0L used in the 216a, I'm highly skeptical that Subaru would offer the same engine setup out of its flagship sports car for one that doesn't have AWD. The 216a is doing the same thing the FT-86 is doing; offering an entry level sports car...affordable.

Oh, and they stated that STi (shut up ichi, this is how I type it, I am OldSkool) is more than likely, but turbo is not. Just all the signs point to no rush or eagerness to turbocharge the car, hence the few years down the line bit on ever possibly seeing one.

You make it seem like a turbocharged 2.0 with RWD can't be affordable. It's been done. The GC. What's even more amazing is that you can get 19'' wheels, Brembo brakes, LSD,Track Suspension,2.0 turbo,RWD,10 years/100,000 mile warranty for just $24,700+shipping. And Toyota has more money and brand recognition than Hyundai so please don't tell me it can't be done at an affordable price.

[Levi]

No worries, I am sure there'll be a turbo version. Why they say ther will be no it to make most by the first one, without, and then make them upgrade for the one with. It is just like BMW, if you want the latest tech, you have to buy you same BMW new every year, even if it is not mid lif cycle refresh.

[Random_Art]

Originally Posted by Levi

No worries, I am sure there'll be a turbo version. Why they say ther will be no it to make most by the first one, without, and then make them upgrade for the one with. It is just like BMW, if you want the latest tech, you have to buy you same BMW new every year, even if it is not mid lif cycle refresh.

Only time will tell. We can look at the Celica as a good example of what Toyota has done in the past. It hasn't been offered with any sort of Forced Induction since the GT-Four/Alltrack back in the 90's. And, the last generation desperately needed some sort of FI to remain competitive in the market about 2 years into that generation's cycle. Still, they left it NA and tried to rely on gaudy body kits to drum up more sales.

Same with the last Generation MR-2. It was only offered with the crummy 1ZZ-FE, even though the 2ZZ-GE is a relatively easy swap. It was only available as a convertable as well, which probably ate into possible sales. I know I would have been more interested in it had they had a coupe version.

[bofa]

An aftermarket turbo would only void the warranty if its proven to be the component that caused the damage. Its not like they send your warranty paperwork to the shredder the moment the dealer hears a psst when you pull up.

Most of the times that I've heard people hide behind the warranty issue is because they are uncomfortable making this modification themselves. That's fine too.

I won't say it's not a legit concern. I lemon law'd my 06 Z for oil consumption and I imagine a turbo on that would have shot my paperwork process. But I've yet to see similar problems reported with Subie engines and wouldn't expect one this go around either. Even if there was an engine issue there are workarounds and the warranty on the rest of the car would still be in tact.

[Sabastian]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

id rather have a factory turbo, with a warranty....vs a aftermarket turbo kit that voids my warranty.Id rather have the manufacturer do the research and take the necessary steps to making a reliable turbocharged engine..vs tuning and rebuilding a brand new engine to accept forced induction.

This. I'm not really into the whole tuning scene, so I typically look for manufacturers to deliver out-of-the-box greatness. I'm also not an automotive engineer, and I won't delude myself into thinking that an hour with a Pep Boys catalog will somehow magically improve my car. No, I'll let the guys currently logging thousands of miles at the 'Ring do that work for me.

Also, has anyone considered the fact that a turbo might not actually improve the car? Sounds crazy, I know, but just look at the Mazdaspeed Miata. Oh sure, it was quicker, and if that's all you care about then that's great, but the extra power totally threw off the car's focus. My hope is that Toyota and Subaru deliver a car that is able to balance power, grip, feedback, and comfort. From what the developers are saying, its sounds like they may just do it. If they do, then slapping a big turbo on the engine is going to throw that whole balance off and destroy all of their hard work.

[Maxim]

I'd rather it were offered in a turbo. The amount of money needed to get more power out of factory turbo offerings is vastly less than required of N/A offerings.

Honestly, 2.0L is just not very much to work with, power wise. Major surgery would be needed on the engine to net another 50hp. 50hp out of a turbo mill is as easy as an exhaust/intake swap and a new ECU.

I would welcome a 2.5L version of the same engine putting out the same specific output though. 250hp from a 2.5L NA would be pretty sweet. I just don't think 2.0L is enough unless it's got a turbo on it.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You make it seem like a turbocharged 2.0 with RWD can't be affordable. It's been done. The GC. What's even more amazing is that you can get 19'' wheels, Brembo brakes, LSD,Track Suspension,2.0 turbo,RWD,10 years/100,000 mile warranty for just $24,700+shipping. And Toyota has more money and brand recognition than Hyundai so please don't tell me it can't be done at an affordable price.

first of all, the hyundai/kia turbo 4 is a GEMA engine. so development costs were shared from inception. second of all, the engine is shared with the sonata, optima, and sportage. the turbo 4 version of the gen coupe is like the V6 mustang/camaro. it was made specifically as a lower cost option of the flagship engine/model.

in this case, the V6 is the flagship model that was made to compete with the stang, camaro, and 370z. the turbo 4 was put together to compete against cars like the civic si, wrx, etc. so low cost for that car was a must from the get go.

lastly, when the ft86 was announced, they had a traget price of 20k... if i recall correctly, there was talk about how they couldnt meet that price and that the price would have to be bumped up a bit. so lets juts say they can price the 2.0L NA version at 23k. how cheap can the turbo version be? 24-25k? i doubt it... just look at the placement of the engine. its already a piping nightmare. do you move the engine up? wouldnt that defeat the purpose of the car? soooo many questions/problems... turbo is such a far off reality at this point...

so anyways, im not saying it cant be done, but just because hyundai did it doesnt mean toyota/subaru WANTS to do it...

as a side note: gen coupe sales are not doing so hot, so its not as if they want a piece of the RWD turbo pie... there IS no pie....

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Sabastian

Also, has anyone considered the fact that a turbo might not actually improve the car? Sounds crazy, I know, but just look at the Mazdaspeed Miata. Oh sure, it was quicker, and if that's all you care about then that's great, but the extra power totally threw off the car's focus. My hope is that Toyota and Subaru deliver a car that is able to balance power, grip, feedback, and comfort. From what the developers are saying, its sounds like they may just do it. If they do, then slapping a big turbo on the engine is going to throw that whole balance off and destroy all of their hard work.

i'd say its more of a guarantee... small turbo and it runs out of gas up top. big turbo and you have lag. variable vane turbo and you pay up the arse for one (and this is forgetting the fact that borgwarner/porsche has that tech under lock and key)...

the tq curve of a turbo engine can never be like a NA engine. even if the NA engine has pitiful tq down low, as long as it can freely rev, you can always control the engine with the throttle. with a turbo car, you always have to wait for spool and then the tq spikes "unpredictably" in relation to your right foot. sure you can try to flatten the tq curve with tuning, but you can never eliminate it. thats just how it is. ok so you stay in boost all the time. nice. now turbo sizing becomes a big factor. let the revs fall and you get off boost, rev too high and you start to run out. get a smaller turbo and you run out sooner. bigger turbo and you have to spool longer and sustain a higher rpm to stay in boost.

turbo just doesnt fit this car. and i personally would rather it not have a turbo. i just hope that they make it a rev happy engine with a high redline.

this kind of turbo/no turbo "debate" was huge when the 335i came out. even though max boost is achieved at like 1500 rpm or whatever, there is still perceptible lag. and up top it starts to run out. its a wonderful engine, one of the best turbo engines ever, but a lot of people still prefer the FEEL of the 3.0l NA six. is the 335i faster? heck yeah. so if that's what you want, ok. if you prefer feel? then NA all the way...

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by Ramo

To bofe and RRnold

I can't make a better response: thi is the real point.

Acutally it's an invalid point b/c there isn't a turbo! From an enthusiasts perspective, how much benefit do you get knowing a car came stock with a turbo. 9 times out of 10, you'll swap it out anyways! Anything you change on the car that isn't OEM will void the warranty.

[Ryephile]

I'd love to see a TVS or twin-screw supercharged factory model. That would be my preference for a boosted application.