Suberman's guide on how to make the car fix his inability to drive correctly.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by litemup

it pushes.

Just for clarity, I knew, but wanted it to be painfully obvious to Suberman

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I stopped reading when he said the only difference was the BRZ had softer rear springs. It does, but it also has firmer front springs too. If he can't even find that out when talking about spring rates, then his ability to string together facts to produce a logical outcome is highly suspect.

I'm sure you have a point to make so make it.

Fitting softer rear springs from the BRZ to the FRS will make it quicker around a lap.

If you want to make your FRS even quicker fit the front springs also.

Next step to try would be....?

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Bench racing huh? I don't think we have that series here but I was wondering how to get into it. The steering alignment looks completely out of kilter.

Your alignment will straighten out just fine but you will still have too much caster.

Try screwing up one end, and you're in luck because it doesn't matter which end.

You will always be down on power though, which in this case is a good thing.

Roll stiffness is pretty high but equal at either end.

Weight transfer will be uncomfortably hard.

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I called it! You're a bench racer!

Hint: There's this thing called journalistic freedom. It's what allows the real drivers to differentiate who is regurgitating what's on the internet and publications, vs what actually is.

While your expertise is most appreciated I very much doubt you know as much about driving on public roads as I do.

My initial post and the point I return to in this thread are intended for road use. Mind you, I'd be very interested to see how bump stop modification could improve the handling of these cars on a track. I suspect replacing them as much as possible with short true bump stops and returning wheel control to the springs, roll bars and dampers would be a very effective way to improve the track handing of these cars. It certainly seems to work for the MX5, a car not known for its competence in road going stock trim.

By all means spend money shaving those part seconds off the lap times but don't expect any of that to help you on the road. For fast road driving year round you need ground clearance with good suspension travel, relatively soft roll, firm dampers and moderate to stiff spring rates. Most of these go out the window if you want to reduce lap times. I know which I prefer having done both.

Tracking a street car isn't very interesting. Buying a track car makes more sense.

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I stopped reading when he said the only difference was the BRZ had softer rear springs. It does, but it also has firmer front springs too. If he can't even find that out when talking about spring rates, then his ability to string together facts to produce a logical outcome is highly suspect.

I say you are still reading, be careful not to strain those brain cells as others are warning. I'm not sure what they're on about, they need to clarify.

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by litemup

wow. i'm trying to fix a push.

You need to be more clear in your first post.

You actually said you were having trouble getting the power down.

That is no surprise in the FRS. The review I linked to explains why you are having that difficulty.

If you are experiencing push AND lack of grip for forward drive I recommend you experiment further on the skid pad or a safe place to try to drift the car. If the car still turns in as you add power you are not getting push (understeer). Basically, inability to get the power down results from inadequate rear grip. On these cars it comes from asking the rear tires to both turn the car and drive the car in excess of the tire grip available. You can push this problem up to a higher speed by fitting better tires. You can virtually eliminate this problem if you fit sticky enough tires but the car still won't be as quick as it is capable of.

Once you clarify for yourself that you really do have push then you are not short of rear grip, just accelerate, assuming you have already turned in.

The limits of cornering speeds for these cars, generally, come at corner exits when the car is in roll it works the rear axle too hard and wastes front tire cornering potential, the FRS worse than the BRZ apparently.

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

While your expertise is most appreciated I very much doubt you know as much about driving on public roads as I do.

.....

By all means spend money shaving those part seconds off the lap times but don't expect any of that to help you on the road. For fast road driving year round you need ground clearance with good suspension travel, relatively soft roll, firm dampers and moderate to stiff spring rates.

I'm up for some troll bait.

So, exactly how "fast" are you driving on the street? I'm assuming you are well in excess of the posted limits if you are experiencing issues with the stability of the car.

Either you are a terrible driver, or you are a bigger ass than we all think for driving that fast on public roads.

[Ubersuber]

Anybody?

Damper rates do affect roll rates (duh) and that is behind variable damping. They affect transient but not steady state.

To affect steady state you need a damper with a variable spring: McLaren uses these as did Citroen, the former uses a gas and the latter hydraulics.

Roll bars (and springs) distribute the grip but cannot "make" grip. Tires make grip.

Reducing roll has only a modest effect on tire grip. The principle reason to reduce roll is to preserve suspension geometry close to ideal. Almost all the clever stuff is designed to keep camber close to zero as the chassis rolls.

The wider the tire the more important it is to keep camber changes under tight control.

For road use you cannot make meaningful improvements to camber rise because you need the suspension travel.

I continue to laugh at those dropped over-tired heavily modified cars as I blast by them into the corners....and yes, I may be laughing at you.

Are we done yet?

[jebuwh]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

While your expertise is most appreciated I very much doubt you know as much about driving on public roads as I do.

My initial post and the point I return to in this thread are intended for road use. Mind you, I'd be very interested to see how bump stop modification could improve the handling of these cars on a track. I suspect replacing them as much as possible with short true bump stops and returning wheel control to the springs, roll bars and dampers would be a very effective way to improve the track handing of these cars. It certainly seems to work for the MX5, a car not known for its competence in road going stock trim.

By all means spend money shaving those part seconds off the lap times but don't expect any of that to help you on the road. For fast road driving year round you need ground clearance with good suspension travel, relatively soft roll, firm dampers and moderate to stiff spring rates. Most of these go out the window if you want to reduce lap times. I know which I prefer having done both.

Tracking a street car isn't very interesting. Buying a track car makes more sense.

You're literally an idiot. I can absolutely guarantee that a car that is fast on the track, will obviously be faster on the street than your tuned by ideas from fairy land car.

You're trying to tell me that a car that is tuned for the track will be slower on a canyon drive than your car? Ridiculous.

Tracking a street car isn't interesting? Awesome, great opinion. Go buy a track car then.

You're posting all this info like you know what you're taking about and when you get your ass handed to you you claim you're a street driving expert. What the hell are you on seriously?

[Dave-ROR]

So I came back here to see if this was still entertaining and the first post I read today has suber pimping his public road driving experience. I can't take it anymore. Closed.