Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by fenton

Okay i am reading this again and see what your saying. Trust me people are going to want the kick that you get rather than just a little bit of boost and progressive to 100%.

You would be taking ALL the fun out of the thing if you did the above

Rob and Pug are working on the V clamp on the MAP to get rid of the CEL, as it stands though the best way to enjoy this thing is with Toma's or Drift offices tune.

I can understand not wanting to flash your ECU but with performance this high it is much safer to flash your ECU than not.

How does the stock ECU deal with fueling/etc if you go WOT @ 2K rpm without a tune? Does anyone have a datalog with timing/fuel/AFR when this happens? I was always interested to see how the ECU dealt with that with this blower

[fenton]

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

How does the stock ECU deal with fueling/etc if you go WOT @ 2K rpm without a tune? Does anyone have a datalog with timing/fuel/AFR when this happens? I was always interested to see how the ECU dealt with that with this blower

It doesnt, it freaks out and goes super rich.

The load created at 2000 rpm is 2 or 3 times what the stock NA car makes.

This means the resolution of the load/timing/fuel table needs to be expanded.

Toma couldn't believe the load generated.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by fenton

It doesnt, it freaks out and goes super rich.

The load created at 2000 rpm is 2 or 3 times what the stock NA car makes.

This means the resolution of the load/timing/fuel table needs to be expanded.

Toma couldn't believe the load generated.

For 'production ready' kits perhaps an RPM dependent switch should be part of the standard kit. When selling to the general public, I'm not sure you want to leave it up to them to be responsible for when they kick this in. I can picture a teenager damaging their motor with repeated low RPM WOT high boost peaks with this system, and then blaming the 'manufacturer' on these very forums. Just a suggestion.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by fenton

You would be taking ALL the fun out of the thing if you did the above

I don't want to take all the fun out, I just want to limit the hazard potential. That's why I'm looking for a way to limit, not eliminate, at really low rpm.

Originally Posted by fenton

Because this system is so simple you have to use a little bit of common sense, just like you would with n2o.

You should not under any circumstances go 100% foot to the floor at 1000 rpm.... thats just crazy and i dont think anybody would do that.

That being said, replacing the WOT switch with a RPM dependent switch is VERY easy and honestly not that expensive should anyone want to do that.

Common sense is fine, but when you're waiting for the light to change so you can go up an onramp and you know (because you see him every morning) that if the idiot in the Forrester next to you gets ahead of you going up the ramp you will hate the merge onto the highway, it's easy to forget that the system is engaged and just punch it off the line. I'd like to mitigate the effects of that lack of attention.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

For 'production ready' kits perhaps an RPM dependent switch should be part of the standard kit. When selling to the general public, I'm not sure you want to leave it up to them to be responsible for when they kick this in. I can picture a teenager damaging their motor with repeated low RPM WOT high boost peaks with this system, and then blaming the 'manufacturer' on these very forums. Just a suggestion.

Fair enough, thanks for the suggestion i will forward it along. This system is essentially being sold under the assumption that you install a tune.

If you purchase the system and run the stock tune you have to understand the risks and limitations of the system and Rob is going to make that very clear.

The stock tune isnt made for boost, plain and simple, yes you can run it, yes it will work above a certain RPM but you really have to understand the limitations of doing so. The only reason they are working on the Vclamp for the MAP is because of people saying they didnt want to flash the ecu.... Rob wants to try and give those people a option if he can.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

I don't want to take all the fun out, I just want to limit the hazard potential. That's why I'm looking for a way to limit, not eliminate, at really low rpm.



Common sense is fine, but when you're waiting for the light to change so you can go up an onramp and you know (because you see him every morning) that if the idiot in the Forrester next to you gets ahead of you going up the ramp you will hate the merge onto the highway, it's easy to forget that the system is engaged and just punch it off the line. I'd like to mitigate the effects of that lack of attention.

I agree completely. This much boost at a low RPM can do some real damage to connecting rods.
@fenton, I agree that simple is good. But there comes a time when a system is too simple. I've said my piece before, wishing for even an optional smarter controller, but this one funtion seems like it should be mandatory for safety reasons. Just my .02, I'm not speaking for anyone else.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by fenton

Fair enough, thanks for the suggestion i will forward it along. This system is essentially being sold under the assumption that you install a tune.

That assumption is a mistake. This is exactly the kind of system that will appeal to guys who consider tuning as something they don't want to get involved with. Easy bolt in, easy removal, minimal fuss.
If I have to limit the power gain slightly to keep my motor safe without a tune, then I'll do that knowing I won't be getting as much out of it as the guy who does get a tune. It'll still be a nice bang for the buck, just not as big a bang as the next guy.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

That assumption is a mistake. This is exactly the kind of system that will appeal to guys who consider tuning as something they don't want to get involved with. Easy bolt in, easy removal, minimal fuss.
If I have to limit the power gain slightly to keep my motor safe without a tune, then I'll do that knowing I won't be getting as much out of it as the guy who does get a tune. It'll still be a nice bang for the buck, just not as big a bang as the next guy.

The boost limiting idea is interesting, although not sure how hard that would be to implement vs an RPM switch. You could call it an E-gate

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

The boost limiting idea is interesting, although not sure how hard that would be to implement vs an RPM switch. You could call it an E-gate

Exactly.

[GT86meMR2]

im a little confused.. so launching the car with this kit is unsafe? and you could break things?
I thought this kit dident make enough power and torque to start breaking things :/

[bfrank1972]

It's a bit different than other FI options out there since it's driven by an electric motor. I'm no engineer but here's my attempt (I *think* it works this way):

- When you go WOT, it closes a switch and the electric motor driving the ESC goes wide open. It's an all or nothing type deal, so in an open situation (not forcing air into a motor) it will deliver a fixed CFM.

- The motor, on the other hand, has variable CFM requirement roughly proportional to RPM. In other words a motor may need twice the CFM at 4000 rpm than 2000 rpm (in real world this of course varies but to illustrate a point).

-At high engine RPM, the ESC motor is able to flow a little bit more than the motor does at atmospheric, so you see maybe 1-2 PSI pressure above atmospheric at high revs.

-At low engine RPM, the ESC motor is able to flow MUCH more than the motor at atmospheric, so it is capable of producing much higher PSI.

In other words, the motor will *try* to stuff a fixed amount of air into the motor regardless of RPM. Since there is no 'wastegate' or other limiter, at very low rpm this thing could *potentially* boost to damaging levels. Other FI types don't really have this problem because they're limited by belt speed (RPM dependent) or wastegates (boost dependent).

Experts please excuse if I'm over-simplifying things.

[Thatruth2001]

Did the AutoX event over the weekend. Unfortunately, I did not prepare the car correctly for the torrential down pour and finished in the bottom 1/3.

The one dry run I had with the ESC (if I did not miss the gate and DNF'ed) would have put me easily in the top 10.

The autoX course was very small and max RPM in 2nd was 5-6,000, so use of the ESC ontight wet turns was limited at best.

At the end of the day I was disappointed that we did not have dry weather this past Sunday in the NW. We have one (1) more event in October and hopefully we will have dry weather or I will be better prepared for rain. . . . More to come.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by BRZmeMR2

im a little confused.. so launching the car with this kit is unsafe? and you could break things?
I thought this kit dident make enough power and torque to start breaking things :/

Absolutely not. Launch tell your clutch desires lol.

Bogging the kit at 1000 rpm and going to 100% throttle will cause the car to not be happy in anything other than 1st gear.

Launching is perfectly fine, rev up to 3000 or so and drop/feather the clutch and your fine.

Anyone who thinks that they are going WOT at 1000 rpm I invite to go out to their cars right now and see how many times that happens.

Even in stock NA form if you go WOT at 1000 rpm in 2, 3, 4th gear the engine sounds soooo bad(dont do it).

The kit with a tune is okay to go WOT at 2000 or above.... although remember lugging the engine at 2000rpm in 6th gear is never going to be as good as just giving a quick downshift to 4th.

I remember when i had my 11 STI and COBB said to never go WOT in higher gears below 2500 or so and that because the engine would load up so much would eventually start knocking.

[Thatruth2001]

Originally Posted by fenton

Absolutely not. Launch tell your clutch desires lol.

Bogging the kit at 1000 rpm and going to 100% throttle will cause the car to not be happy in anything other than 1st gear.

Launching is perfectly fine, rev up to 3000 or so and drop/feather the clutch and your fine.

Anyone who thinks that they are going WOT at 1000 rpm I invite to go out to their cars right now and see how many times that happens.

Even in stock NA form if you go WOT at 1000 rpm in 2, 3, 4th gear the engine sounds soooo bad(dont do it).

The kit with a tune is okay to go WOT at 2000 or above.... although remember lugging the engine at 2000rpm in 6th gear is never going to be as good as just giving a quick downshift to 4th.

I remember when i had my 11 STI and COBB said to never go WOT in higher gears below 2500 or so and that because the engine would load up so much would eventually start knocking.

The drift office ecutek option is tuned to go WOT at 1,800 RPM. Talk to Rob, he has seen the AFR reading. I only use the ESC at 2,500 in either 4th or 5th gears so I do not have to downshift to pass on the highway. Puts a big smile on my face!