Video: HKS 86 drift car + first 86/FR-S/BRZ dyno = 170 rwhp!!!

[7thgear]

anyone who has ever decided to modify a Subaru engine on a budget ended up paying dearly for it.


anyone who claims to have a reliably built high power Subaru engine on a budget has previously destroyed a few


anyone who claims to have a high power (450whp++) Subaru engine that's last them for a very long time babies it and has never seen a 20-30 minute track session at 100%, doing 2 Gs in a corner, 10 times a year.


ask any humble subaru racer who attempted to cheap out in their engine build and drove it hard at the track, and they will tell you they had problems

ask any rally engine builder shop how long performance rally engines last that make "stupid" amounts of power and they'll tell you how often subaru engines fail, even the new ones.


keep it stock, put on some RS3's or better, and try to not brake.

[brewksy]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

anyone who has ever decided to modify a Subaru engine on a budget ended up paying dearly for it.


anyone who claims to have a reliably built high power Subaru engine on a budget has previously destroyed a few


anyone who claims to have a high power (450whp++) Subaru engine that's last them for a very long time babies it and has never seen a 20-30 minute track session at 100%, doing 2 Gs in a corner, 10 times a year.


ask any humble subaru racer who attempted to cheap out in their engine build and drove it hard at the track, and they will tell you they had problems

ask any rally engine builder shop how long performance rally engines last that make "stupid" amounts of power and they'll tell you how often subaru engines fail, even the new ones.


keep it stock, put on some RS3's or better, and try to not brake.

Truth! I'm willing to bet many others will pave the way to high-hp builds, some manufacturers will come out with cheap plug-and-play hp mods, and others will forego hp mods entirely and stick with handling and lightness-adding changes.

[Dragonitti]

I'm looking for a street car, already have a track car. So, my hp upgrades would be modest. When I want to jump in my ride with 400hp then I would just go grab my track car.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by DanPO

You know.... I have really enjoyed reading this but we are forgetting what this car is REALLY about. Not the specs on the page. None of us are going to know anything about this car until we sit in it and experience it ourselves. I haven't seen a bad review or bad comment about this car yet from anyone who has driven the car. So... with that being said let's not rule out that Hp or Tq is good enough for the car. It wasn't made to look good on paper!!! It is that garage queen where on a Saturday when: Your wife is yelling at you that you didn't rinse the dishes before putting them in the dishwasher, you didn't perform good enough at your job that week and your kid is sick! You need an escape! You get in your FR-S/BRZ that is modded to your hearts desire and you go drift around that big corner next to your house because you know that no one else is watching you (and there are no cops).

Let's not forget that this car is about the experience of pure joy and freedom and not about the paper spec.

Fixed.

Last time I checked blowing passed old men in their mid-life crisis expensive sports cars is not joy. If they want to race you, let them have their moment, they probably desperately need it more than you. Your moment of joy will come on the next corner.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

I'm looking for a street car, already have a track car. So, my hp upgrades would be modest. When I want to jump in my ride with 400hp then I would just go grab my track car.

Yes, this. I have no intention of buying a brand new car and then drowning it in warranty voiding parts. I already have a turbo car project that is not leaving my stable.

[DanPO]

Quote: " Last time I checked blowing passed old men in their mid-life crisis expensive sports cars is not joy. If they want to race you, let them have their moment, they probably desperately need it more than you. Your moment of joy will come on the next corner."

I agree. You are right.

[chessplaya2010]

anyone care to explain why for the most part ppl are excite about these results.. of 170whp...? isn't 200 HP what was advertised...? im not a car guru so just limit your reply to a basic explanation and supress the unneeded comments.... thx in advance...

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by chessplaya2010

anyone care to explain why for the most part ppl are excite about these results.. of 170whp...? isn't 200 HP what was advertised...? im not a car guru so just limit your reply to a basic explanation and supress the unneeded comments.... thx in advance...

one is crank, one is wheel

sometimes manufacturers claim lower power levels than actual (such as corvette), othertimes they claim more power than actual (RX8)

so people dyno cars to try and get true readings

a "dyno" is a machine that measures how much power the car puts down through the wheels.


the difference between a manufacturers claimed crank HP vs real world wheel HP is what most people always talk about.

however as was said already, a typical wheel dyno is best used for individual testing. (ie, my car made 100 horse power at the wheels in stock form, then i put on an exhaust and it made 110 horse power on the same dyno, that means i've icnreased my power by 10%)

however what ONE car does on a dyno may not directly translate into what another car will do on the same dyno due to many factors.



having said that, the most accurate way to test you power is an ENGINE dyno, where your engine is hooked up to a machine that measures power

but for the average enthusiast this is extreamly prohibitive since they would have to remove their engine from the car along with everything else that makes it run.




further more,

a manufacturer claims a "peak" horsepower, this peak horsepower is useless to any car enthusiast

what a car driver should really care about is the entire power band, from idle until redline.

To get this graph you have to dyno the car, and then make the necessary conclusions about the general health of the engine and it's drivability.





maybe this will help explain...

i just pulled this from google, this looks like a corolla engine with VVTi or whatever it is that they invented nowdays. (vtec for simplicities sake)



as you can see, this car makes around 165 peak horsepower, but only after a massive power icnrease at 6500 RPM

until 6500 RPM this car tops out at 120 hp, and even than thats around 6000 RPM

regular street driving at 2000-3000 RPM this corolla is doing around 60 horsepower.


what does this mean? this means this car is a shitty "street racer", it's only good above 6500 RPM and you're not allowed to drop below that RPM or else you're back in Yugo land. This car will, however, be a good sleeper on the track...



s

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by chessplaya2010

anyone care to explain why for the most part ppl are excite about these results.. of 170whp...? isn't 200 HP what was advertised...? im not a car guru so just limit your reply to a basic explanation and supress the unneeded comments.... thx in advance...

200hp is the advertised HP at the Motor.

170whp is the power at the wheels. From the motor to the wheels, rotating parts and transmission you will lose power. So, the 170whp is a good sign that Toyota/Subaru did deliver on their advertised hp number.

[Tainen]

I'm kind of shocked at the people that are whining about the low HP numbers. We've known for quite a long time that this car is 200 crank hp... this is NOT news. This car was not designed to be a drag racer! If anything, it's designed to just be a really fun car to drive. And you don't need HP to accomplish that- ask any Miata owner.

[chessplaya2010]

thanks dragonitti and 7thgear

[7thgear]

+1

if what they say about this car's handling is true, (ie, better than a Porsche Caymen, assuming equal tires),

then this "mere" 200HP is going to be a godsend, you'll be able to stay on the gas in corner where something like an STi would have trouble trying to stay in shape.



having said that, a high horse power is necessary to break through air resistance to achive a high top speed. In that regard, the HP is a hurdle...

but, only if you race at premier race tracks, like Laguna Seca (going UP the hill before the cork-screw, for instance), or Mosport International Raceway (the ridiculously long back stretch that allows drivers of cars below 150-200 HP to have a cigarette while reading two chapters from Tom Sawyer)

but then again, if you're good enough maybe your 20-30km/h higher entrance speed into every corner will buy you just enough time to fight back those corvettes before you start going downhill again

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Here's my latest attempt at the dyno chart




I think you can ignore the numbers on these charts since it is not very scientific, but the important thing (to me anyways) is the shape of the torque curve. It looks like there is plenty of torque available from fairly low rpms, which should translate into a very driveable car.

Here is another one with the RPMs shifted up by 1000 (based on WoW's image on previous page)



This one is impossible since we know that they shift at 7500, so I think the reality is somewhere in between these two.

Nice! yeah its really hard trying to find the numbers on that thing..

Thing that bothers me is where peak power is on your chart that you made was around 6250rpm..then falls dramatically to 7500 redline..

I know some reports and drive impressions are saying that there is a problem with the top end, i wasnt under the impression it was that bad... not to where you loose 30hp/50ftlb in a span of 1250rpms of supposedly usable powerband. Graph kinda reminds me of a engine with an improperly sized turbo that runs out of breath.

As for my chart...when i plugged in the numbers for my image capture..i just used the offical subaru/toyota report that peak power is at 7000rpm and peak tq is at 6500rpm. So dont hurt me! Doing that gave us only 500 of shit power to redline.

So far its not making a whole lot of sense to me...and that big fall off tail at the end of the capture throws me off..because it makes me think the end of that tail is redline 7500 ..where your making a whopping...140hp/98ftlbs.
...toyotas/subaru promise for a high reving motor...me thinks not delivered.

based on our assumption looks like usable power band is as good as a estimate of 4k-6k..and best place to shift is 6500rpm....wtf is the point of the 86x86 then? shouldnt a square motor make a better slope?

urg...plugging in calculations based on that chart is annoying..and i want too see an accurate torque curve. I wish i was good at this stuff..but im a designer...my left brain doesn't function as well as my right

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Nice! yeah its really hard trying to find the numbers on that thing..

Thing that bothers me is where peak power is on your chart that you made was around 6250rpm..then falls dramatically to 7500 redline..

I know some reports and drive impressions are saying that there is a problem with the top end, i wasnt under the impression it was that bad... not to where you loose 30hp/50ftlb in a span of 1250rpms of supposedly usable powerband. Graph kinda reminds me of a engine with an improperly sized turbo that runs out of breath.

As for my chart...when i plugged in the numbers for my image capture..i just used the offical subaru/toyota report that peak power is at 7000rpm and peak tq is at 6500rpm. So dont hurt me! Doing that gave us only 500 of shit power to redline.

So far its not making a whole lot of sense to me...and that big fall off tail at the end of the capture throws me off..because it makes me think the end of that tail is redline 7500 ..where your making a whopping...140hp/98ftlbs.
...toyotas/subaru promise for a high reving motor...me thinks not delivered.

based on our assumption looks like usable power band is as good as a estimate of 4k-6k..and best place to shift is 6500rpm....wtf is the point of the 86x86 then? shouldnt a square motor make a better slope?

urg...plugging in calculations based on that chart is annoying..and i want too see an accurate torque curve. I wish i was good at this stuff..but im a designer...my left brain doesn't function as well as my right

Welcome to boxer engine... Where top end drop lol but I think that problem should be solved w minor ecu reflash (like my RS)