Ground Control faq/video/picture/ideas thread

[gmookher]

Originally Posted by ngabdala

Someone tell me what to do. I haven't installed my BC Racing BR Coils with Swift Springs. Please just tell me

I'd sell the BC if you can afford the GC, not even same league

[ayau]

@GC_Adam, can you list the different spring rates for each kit?

[DriftEightSix]

Originally Posted by GC86

From this thread:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=20

GC has been fortunate to be able to do extensive testing, because we had Koni build special strut inserts in Holland, and they are already here. We did not have to wait for anything to arrive in February or March.

Attached below are 4 different FT86 struts, including Koni race and Koni SPGC custom valving. Any one these four pairs of damping could be chosen by you (or for you).

(four pairs, each plot is a max and min of each damper, so 8 graphs total.)

Also attached is a picture of one of the custom valved GC strut inserts. As you can see, it is not a regular off the shelf Koni strut.

How do i read the graph lol.

[GC86]

Originally Posted by DriftEightSix

How do i read the graph lol.

If you look at them all day, it is more than numbers, but the SHAPE.

The most similar thing I can compare to would be the eq ( equalization) for an audio system.

Are you familiar with that?

Otherwise, basically what you are looking at is:

Center line horizontal =zero.

Far left = zero.

Up and down = pounds of "resistance" from the strut.

Left and right = speed that you are moving the strut.

So, far left in the center is zero pounds resistance being moved at zero inches per second. (If you are a strut, shock or damper, then "inches per second" is just like miles per hour. Meters per second is just like kilometers per hour. Its all relative.)*

As the strut is forced to move faster and faster, it is designed to build up resistance. The "stretching", aka rebound resistance is above the center (zero) line, and the corresponding bump aka compression resistance is below the line.

The differences between struts are shown, and the desires are chosen by how much resistance is given at a certain speed. Because the strut is never moving at just one speed, then the PATTERN of how each relates to the next is where the choices take place.

Make sense? I tried to be real basic, and even used more generic words than prudent, so Zeds don't call me out about "Velocity" or "newtons".#

* inches per second of the strut has NOTHING to do with MPH of the car.

# The word "newton" is not capitalized when used as a unit of measure. Isaac got dissed.


JM

[ayau]

@GC86, are the Koni Race shocks just re-valved Koni Yellows?

What are the max spring rates the Koni Yellows and the Koni Race can reasonably take?

[GC86]

Originally Posted by ayau

@GC86, are the Koni Race shocks just re-valved Koni Yellows?

What are the max spring rates the Koni Yellows and the Koni Race can reasonably take?

Actually, you are describing the "traditional internet" way of choosing springs. It is an easy trap to fall into, because companies that give you a choice of damping are few and far between. Most internet shops just want to drop ship a preboxed suspension.

Let me explain what Ground Control feels is the best way to do this:

Choose the car.

Choose the spring.

Choose the damping based on the above.

If you try to just pick springs, based on what damping you have, then you may have shortchanged yourself and your performance. The spring rate affects the car, and the damper affects the spring.

So, to answer you questions specifically

Originally Posted by ayau

@GC86, are the Koni Race shocks just re-valved Koni Yellows?

No, the Koni Race are manufactured in Holland with race valving. they are not a modification of a different strut.

By the way, the GC custom valved struts are also made to spec in Holland, and are not a modification of a different strut.

Originally Posted by ayau

What are the max spring rates the Koni Yellows and the Koni Race can reasonably take?

We would choose the best/most desirable/optimum springs rates, and THEN choose the damping to match. (not the other way around).

I hope this is helpful.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by GC86

Actually, you are describing the "traditional internet" way of choosing springs. It is an easy trap to fall into, because companies that give you a choice of damping are few and far between. Most internet shops just want to drop ship a preboxed suspension.

Let me explain what Ground Control feels is the best way to do this:

Choose the car.

Choose the spring.

Choose the damping based on the above.

If you try to just pick springs, based on what damping you have, then you may have shortchanged yourself and your performance. The spring rate is more important than the damping.

So, to answer you questions specifically



No, the Koni Race are manufactured in Holland with race valving. they are not a modification of a different strut.

By the way, the GC custom valved struts are also made to spec in Holland, and are not a modification of a different strut.




We would choose the best/most desirable/optimum springs rates, and THEN choose the damping to match. (not the other way around).

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks for clarifying.

Sometimes you might have to pick a shock based on your springs. For example, SCCA Stock Class regulations don't allow aftermarket springs, but they allow aftermarket shocks. Given the relatively soft OEM springs, I'm guessing the Koni Yellows would be the better choice.

Just out of curiosity, at what point would you recommend someone bump up to the Koni Race shocks? As you stated, you choose springs first, then you choose shocks. What spring rates are we talking about?

Let's say someone picked 500 lbs/inch springs, which damper would you recommend, Koni Yellow or Koni Race?

Finally, Koni's website only shows the Koni Yellows that are available for the FRS/BRZ. Are the Koni Race shocks some sort of custom damper that consumers can only buy from GC?

[GC86]

Originally Posted by ayau

Thanks for clarifying.

Sometimes you might have to pick a shock based on your springs.

What I was trying to say is the extreme, you should ALWAYS try to pick the shocks based on the springs. In which case "stock class" is a good example.

Originally Posted by ayau

For example, SCCA Stock Class regulations don't allow aftermarket springs, but they allow aftermarket shocks. Given the relatively soft OEM springs, I'm guessing the Koni Yellows would be the better choice.

Just out of curiosity, at what point would you recommend someone bump up to the Koni Race shocks? As you stated, you choose springs first, then you choose shocks. What spring rates are we talking about?

Let's say someone picked 500 lbs/inch springs, which damper would you recommend, Koni Yellow or Koni Race?

That is a theoretical question, so we just couldn't answer. Too many other variables. (such as suspension travel). I would recommend a complete matched suspension from one vendor, rather than trying to piece something together. That way, the variables will hopefully have been accounted for.

Originally Posted by ayau

Finally, Koni's website only shows the Koni Yellows that are available for the FRS/BRZ. Are the Koni Race shocks some sort of custom damper that consumers can only buy from GC?

The generic Konis on their website are supposed to arrive in March or April. Although some companies are advertising them now, they are not available.

[eckoflyte]

Are the koni race and custom gc koni dampers both dual adjustable?

What is the range of drop on the car with either shock (assuming full kit with gc camber top and bumpstop and 10kg Front/12Kg Rear spring)

[eckoflyte]

Are the koni race and custom gc koni dampers both monotube?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by eckoflyte

Are the koni race and custom gc koni dampers both dual adjustable?

What is the range of drop on the car with either shock (assuming full kit with gc camber top and bumpstop and 10kg Front/12Kg Rear spring)

You could drop another 80-90mm and have dropped 30mm already, however, once you get past about 60mm of drop, you'll start to compromise available shaft travel before you hit the bumpstops on road undulations and potholes that I may mistakenly fail to avoid.

When I ordered they only had the dual adjust fronts, when I ordered the rears was told they may come out with a DA rear later.

[GC_Adam]

Originally Posted by eckoflyte

Are the koni race and custom gc koni dampers both monotube?

No, The Koni insert both race and GC customs are of twin tube design.

[GC_Adam]

Originally Posted by eckoflyte

Are the koni race and custom gc koni dampers both dual adjustable?

GC custom dampers are single (rebound only) adjustable and Koni race are available in both single (rebound only) and double (rebound and compression) adjustable.

Originally Posted by eckoflyte

What is the range of drop on the car with either shock (assuming full kit with gc camber top and bumpstop and 10kg Front/12Kg Rear spring)

Those are pretty stiff springs. Ride height would probably be in the range of 1.7 with those rates. But we haven't done any kits with that stiff of a spring.

What are you using the car for?

[AZFA20]

The 375lb front and 400lb rear combined with a larger rear sway, then the sway set to the stiffest setting, coupled with a meaty 255 in the rear nets a very stable rear end with just a smidge of controllable slide. Not sure I would really ever want anything stiffer than the 400lb in the rear to be honest. I think the 400 was a perfect choice for all around use. Might have been able to do away with 375 but with the dampening adjustments you get a pretty wide range of ride characteristic. Especially when you toss in adjustable sways.