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01-02-2013, 08:31 AM | #43 | |||||
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In front though? What *really* happens is the steering wheel self centers and you don't have a real side to side difference. 1/4 inch toe-in on one side and 1/4 in toe-out on the other is still zero total toe. The car will drive straight, turn the same left vs right, it will just have a steering wheel that isn't centered. Fix it with the tie rods or fix it by pulling the steering wheel and centering it. You won't see any difference between the two methods until you get to full steering lock, and you might not see it then. Quote:
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As for the question in the original post, I still maintain that you can throw on some camber bolts, max out the neg. camber and call it a day. It will be fine for daily driving. I do agree, that at some point an alignment is in order, but the tires aren't going to wear excessively while you figure out what you actually want, and why. |
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01-02-2013, 11:52 AM | #44 | |
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I was not happy with the first two alignments however, I do not think the values were spoofed. I do not question your experience, however you have not provided alignments before and after installing camber bolts for this car. I am. Is this the be all end all? No but it clearly shows that a car that was within factory specs of alignment, WAS NOT after installing the bolts, both OEM and aftermarket. After installing OEM crash bolts: TOE Front Left -0.25 Front Right 0.10 After Installing SPC Camber Bolts TOE Front Left -0.12 Front Right -0.23 Are these good alignment values, no. Unacceptable for an enthusiast as well as a dealership doing a to spec alignment. We can argue all day about changes in steering feel, low speed feel, high speed stability of alignments however this is all driver dependent. Again I am trying to answer the question of the poster with data not with guesstimates.
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01-02-2013, 04:55 PM | #45 |
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I think this thread has lost its way.
OP wants to install Camber bolts. Camber bolts provide more camber. You adjust camber and measure by getting an alignment. Should OP get an alignment? Yes, you absolutely *want* an alignment. If you are going to the effort of installing something, install it correctly so that the bolts do what they are supposed to do. Do you *need* an alignment? No, but I don't understand why you would install bolts if you were just going to slam the struts all the way in. The toe change may be minor with camber change, but 1/16" toe in vs. 1/16" toe out can have a big effect on the way a performance car handles. Camber bolts aside, "factory spec" for an alignment is usually pretty crappy for most cars. Any car out of the box would benefit from a performance alignment. |
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01-02-2013, 04:58 PM | #46 | |
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01-02-2013, 09:06 PM | #47 |
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Even if you're running full size bolts, there's enough wiggle room that the alignment won't be the same on both sides, or ideal unless you're REALLY lucky. Just because it's within "spec" doesn't mean it's the same, or good. I think stock front camber spec is 0* +/- 0.8*, that means you could have a net difference of 1.6* between the two sides and still be within spec.
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01-02-2013, 11:32 PM | #48 |
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Exactly right. The range of "within spec" is large and has tons of variance straight from the factory and that's the real problem. "Within spec" can be quite shitty, if you are lucky maybe not. But who knows until it is on an alignment t rack. I would recommend an alignment even without the bolts! If you are going to the trouble of putting them on do it right and get an alignment.
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01-03-2013, 01:25 AM | #49 | |
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Also, the camber bolts changed my toe exactly 0.00 degrees. YMMV.
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01-03-2013, 01:31 AM | #50 | |
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But yeah, realistically, you probably can't get anything more than -2.2 on the camber bolts and lowered springs. I'm guessing you'll need camber plates if you want to get -3.0 or more camber. @CSG Mike is currently running that setup. |
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01-03-2013, 01:51 AM | #51 | |
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I'll be running threaded body coilovers soon with plates so I'll be going to -3.0 up front initially.
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01-03-2013, 01:56 AM | #52 |
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Are most coilovers threaded with a bigger slot?
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01-03-2013, 01:59 AM | #53 |
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You mean at the strut to knuckle/upright mount? Many are. I'm not sure if the Eibachs are, but between the crash bolts (or other camber bolts) and the camber plates up top I'll have more than enough camber adjustment. I'll max out what I can at the bottom so I can make easy adjustments at the top during alignments, etc.
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01-03-2013, 02:03 AM | #54 | |
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Getting camber in the rear doesn't seem to be a problem as lowering the car will gain you a lot of negative camber in the rear; it's fine tuning/balancing both sides that seems to be the issue. |
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01-03-2013, 02:06 AM | #55 | |
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01-03-2013, 08:14 AM | #56 |
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