My Test Drive Impressions

[Norkoastal]

I dont think the car got a fair shake in this review.. Based on OP's focus I would say a stock BRZ would be a better test drive... The ride is adjusted slightly softer and stock wheels and tires bring out more playtime than the add ons the shady dealer put on..

[Demandred7]

Originally Posted by Razz

The OP is confirming what other magazines editors and car enthusatist have said about the car.

The FRS also doesn't have a independent rear suspension system as adverstised.

The OP lives in an area where there are several sharp twisty turns for 15 miles so he has lots of experience handling a car on roads like that.

Maybe I need better glasses, but, looking at the cutaway pics, it certainly looks independent to me:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8068

[nedmundo]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

I think every manufacturer is going to have teething problems when they finally adopt electric power steering. It's just a matter of time before they perfect it though and it feels as good as the older hydraulic steering systems.

I'm sure there is an engineering learning curve for EPS, but it has been around for awhile, and yet even Porsche and BMW have produced systems with minimal feedback. (Porsche according to reviews I've read; BMW I know from experience.) As I understand things, the high rotational inertia of electric motors means the rack simply doesn't move as much in response to surface irregularities, which are effectively filtered out. This makes "road feel" difficult to achieve with EPS. Indeed, in their recent comparo of the 328i and ATS, Car and Driver remarked that EPS had "exterminated" road feel.

I hope you're right that EPS engineers will overcome this obstacle, especially for enthusiast-oriented cars. There is simply no excuse for numb steering in a Sport Line BMW, Porsche, or dedicated sports car like the FR-S/BRZ.

I've read that some cars with EPS, especially the NSX, S2000 and RX-8, had excellent steering feedback. If so, I wonder why the others can't get it right or whether, perhaps, it's simply easier to engineer EPS with good feedback into a lightweight RWD sports car.

[SOneThreeCoupe]

The difference is, as I understand, in the programming of the assist as well as in the placement of the motor assembly.

JTEKT, the (likely) manufacturer of the EPS systems in the ZN6/ZC6, says the best steering feel is available through rack direct-drive EPS systems; the ZN/ZC chassis uses a column-mount, as do the majority of cars lacking steering feel. From what I've been able to glean by internet sleuthing, there may be room for a rack EPS, but my guess is that cost was likely higher; the close proximity to the sway bar and block/bellhousing, as well as the rear of the cylinder head interface probably would've led to packaging issues. Whether or not it is possible is not within the realm of my grasp.

The more powerful, modern EPS units also have the ability to filter out vibration by providing an inverse assist. I wonder if that's the case here.

I need to spend a little more time reading the shock dynos.

The problem with the ZN/ZC is that younger people (like me) have no idea that there can be a positive ride/handling compromise, and I think that's due to the idea that lap times, g-forces and slalom speeds have made bench-racers out of the majority of us. The problem is that the vast majority of seriously fast, seriously grippy cars are inferior on the street; they're too harsh-riding, and with limits so high that to access them one must be going so fast that a crash would be catastrophic.

[nedmundo]

Originally Posted by SOneThreeCoupe

The difference is, as I understand, in the programming of the assist as well as in the placement of the motor assembly.

JTEKT, the (likely) manufacturer of the EPS systems in the ZN6/ZC6, says the best steering feel is available through rack direct-drive EPS systems; the ZN/ZC chassis uses a column-mount, as do the majority of cars lacking steering feel. From what I've been able to glean by internet sleuthing, there may be room for a rack EPS, but my guess is that cost was likely higher; the close proximity to the sway bar and block/bellhousing, as well as the rear of the cylinder head interface probably would've led to packaging issues. Whether or not it is possible is not within the realm of my grasp.

The more powerful, modern EPS units also have the ability to filter out vibration by providing an inverse assist. I wonder if that's the case here.

I need to spend a little more time reading the shock dynos.

The assist programming must make a difference, and I have read something about the difference between column mount and rack mounted systems before, which said exactly the same thing. And yes, EPS can be programmed for all sorts of tasks. For example, the Focus ST's steering is programmed to counteract torque steer, which is a welcome feature IMO.

As it happens, today I tested a new 328i with X-Drive and the Variable Sport Steering. (It also had the M Sport package.) Its steering was just as numb as that in the 328i I drove previously, but some of this may have been the AWD. I was again amazed that I experienced better steering feel when I got back into my Acura. It doesn't have much feedback, but provides more than the BMW.

[NOHOME]

Good review. Wrong forum! "Kool Aid" is pretty much spelled "FRS" around these parts.

After 5 months, I will have to agree with the conclusion that this is a Really Good car, but not really a great car in the way that the Miata was when it was introduced. The FRS is too compromised by trying to straddle a niche market and still have some clients.

The fact of the matter is that there is not a 30k (Canadian price) car out there that does perform as well. Your options are to step down to a Mazda3 or up to a Boxter. The Miata is a better toy, but I am not willing to go back to only 2 seats, plus I wanted to try something different. The Boxter is to expensive and I'm not sure how it would handle winter. The FRS will do.

[2013GTRNate]

As the current owner of a 2013 Nissan GT-R and previous owner of some pretty outstanding cars I must say that I disagree with the original posters assessment of the FRS/BRZ.

Obviously nobody can determine whether what a person perceives to be reality is in fact a reality. But my test drives have been the exact opposite of yours and that is fine. It appears that the FRS is not your proverbial "cup of tea"... These twins offer the perfect blend of fun factor, performance and MPG for me. I love my GT-R but I am trying to keep the miles off of it but I wanted to have fun in a DD. For the price point/performance/MPG etc... there is nothing out there that compares to these two cars. If you didn't get that during your test drive while in a car that had been taken completely out of its original and factory intended wheel and tire setup then maybe this isn't your car...

I can drive any car and find plenty to hate but I don't go to the forums for said car and bash it publicly and then wonder why people are offended, just saying!

Good Day!

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

The fact of the matter is that there is not a 30k (Canadian price) car out there that does perform as well. Your options are to step down to a Mazda3 or up to a Boxter. The Miata is a better toy, but I am not willing to go back to only 2 seats, plus I wanted to try something different. The Boxster is too expensive and I'm not sure how it would handle winter. The FRS will do.

With the Boxster you'd also be going back to only 2 seats And yeah, it'd be pretty miserable trying to use it in a London ON winter, even with the hard top.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by nedmundo

I've read that some cars with EPS, especially the NSX, S2000 and RX-8, had excellent steering feedback.

If you thought the 86's steering lacked feedback, you'd be disappointed with the S2000's steering as well.

Personally I think this is getting blown out of proportion. The steering on an FR-S might not be like a 1990's era Miata, but it's better in other ways (much quicker ratio, more precise).

Certainly it wouldn't prevent me from buying a car as good as the FR-S (or S2000 for that matter).

[NOHOME]

Originally Posted by einzlr

With the Boxster you'd also be going back to only 2 seats And yeah, it'd be pretty miserable trying to use it in a London ON winter, even with the hard top.

The Miata was fine for thirteen years of winter, cant see where the porshe would be ant worse than the Miata or the FRS for that matter.

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by einzlr

With the Boxster you'd also be going back to only 2 seats And yeah, it'd be pretty miserable trying to use it in a London ON winter, even with the hard top.

I was very happy in my MR2 roadster in the winter! (with hardtop)
Would probably not be any less happy in another MR or even RR.
Steering feel in that car was great too. Felt every little bump in the road through the steering wheel.
Could go from one side of the country and over the mountains to the other without issues and problems with step hills thanks to it having more weight over the rear wheels. But yeah, it was a bit more nervous than a FR. And a bit short wheelbase did improve on that. .
If not doing any spirited driving MR would probably be better than FR when going through a town in the winter based on my experience.

[Shagaliscious]

Originally Posted by SOneThreeCoupe

If you're coming from a Miata, MX-5, or something with great steering feel and a decent ride through the twisty bits

I was unaware the Miata & the MX-5 were different cars.

[RaceR]

Originally Posted by Shagaliscious

I was unaware the Miata & the MX-5 were different cars.

They are not 100% the same car throughout the world. Kinda like the FR-S, GT86 and BRZ.

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by Shagaliscious

I was unaware the Miata & the MX-5 were different cars.

Originally Posted by RaceR

They are not 100% the same car throughout the world. Kinda like the FR-S, GT86 and BRZ.

Haha that figures. In the US it's mostly a matter of model year and personal habit. It used to be called Miata here, then a few years ago it became Miata MX-5, then just MX-5. But many of us - ahem - still just say Miata for all of them because it's habit and it's simpler.