2013 Subaru BRZ vs 2012 Honda Civic Si HFP

[track_warrior]

I would not say dominates, since the civic has stickier tires....

[SuperDave]

Originally Posted by suzuka

... as per TTAC via autoguide
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...in-track-test/


My 2 cents: The Civic Si would've not just dominate... but PWNED the Toyobaru thoroughly if Honda decided to keep the front double wishbone suspension instead of McStruts. All wheel double wishbones traditionally found in older Honda chassis (EG/EK/DC2-R) usually gave similarly powered FR cars a run for its money.

drives a 7th gen accord. hardly the person for an objective observation.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Chupacabra

They need quite a few cars to return in order to prop up their history. Right now, used S2000's and Preludes are the closest vehicles they have to maintain their image. It will take time, the revision or death of the CR-Z, or release of a hi-perf Fit to make the change immediately.

I agree with this... but replace prelude with nsx

[baldolera]

Originally Posted by SuperDave

drives a 7th gen accord. hardly the person for an objective observation.

I was just about to say... this guy may have come from the Honda forum! Since we are on ft86club forum, we may be quite biased towards the BRZ too. At the same time, give me a break... the Civic dominated the BRZ? By 0.1 of a second, while it was a grand more expensive?

[rice_classic]

fatoni. Come to the darkside... We have hot wings

[mattles]

The new Civic Si is junk, lol. Your trolling skills are bad and you should feel bad.

[dsgerbc]

Another troll added to ignore list.
If you put r-comp tires on some random dodge dart turbo - it would also outpace BRZ/FR-S on some tracks. Wouldn't make it less of a turd in a 'performance cars' department.

[Jayde]

Originally Posted by Kimsey47

Honda, how much I wanted to love thee but thee gave into thy beigeness... Noweth thou sucketh.

As a former Honda fan I cannot describe how disgusted I am with their products... And don't get me started on Acura! Woof! ILX for the FAIL.

Oh, how I miss the Type R/S2k. Hell, I even miss the 8thgen Si and that 8100 redline!

[mattles]

Oh, and for comparison sake, when a good driver puts good tires under the FRS and drives the piss out of it, the FRS is 5 seconds quicker than stock at BWCW13.
http://fecompetition.wordpress.com/2...ack-day-recap/

Yay, datapoints!

EDIT: Id like to reiterate that. 5 seconds from tires/alignment alone. If you dont why that is awesome, then there is no help for you.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by chulooz

No, but the tires are the constantly active variables between the car and the road... no true comparison of two cars abilities can be fully justified without evening up the playing field on tires.

Besides, changing/removing parts of the car is not the same as replacing tire compounds... especially if they remain 'street class'.

the weight of the car is a constant between the car and the road. i could see that argument if we were debating two cars that we had to drive in a certain racing class but that isnt the case. when i buy a car with my dollars, there are tires included. im paying for those tires just like im paying for the suspension, horsepower, comfort, etc. absolutely everything you have said is arbitrary. im not saying that a test on the same tires isnt informative im just saying that it isnt a stock v stock comparo.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Chupacabra

Apologies here, but for me the new Civic Si is too reminiscent of the 1st gen tC. The need to add a turbo, the detuned 2.4L motor, and the comfortable chassis just don't speak highly for Honda's actual heritage of phenomenal motors and agile footwork and sound like a play on the tC.

They need quite a few cars to return in order to prop up their history. Right now, used S2000's and Preludes are the closest vehicles they have to maintain their image. It will take time, the revision or death of the CR-Z, or release of a hi-perf Fit to make the change immediately.

haha, what? also the tc can actually be a crazy fast car for little money.

Originally Posted by mattles

Oh, and for comparison sake, when a good driver puts good tires under the FRS and drives the piss out of it, the FRS is 5 seconds quicker than stock at BWCW13.
http://fecompetition.wordpress.com/2...ack-day-recap/

Yay, datapoints!

EDIT: Id like to reiterate that. 5 seconds from tires/alignment alone. If you dont why that is awesome, then there is no help for you.

not that i dont agree with the point you are making but there were brake mods too. i know they were on for both runs but i dont think the stock tires could put them to use as well. i would imagine the gap would be a little close between the tires without the carbotechs...but yeah, kinda ridiculous

[rice_classic]

fatoni, this may "grind your gears" (a la Peter Griffin)
But go back to the video. I have it linked to start at 6:05. It's worth a listen to what he says after saying the Civic was quicker:

[Jordo!]

For a 10th of a second difference, and significantly better rubber on the Civic, for once, I call this particular loss a legitimate "win" for the BRZ.

Toyota just needs to offer a "dorifto" vs. "track" package. Give slip to the hoons and grip to the boyracers. Then everyone will be happy.

[TRD_86]

Honda Civic Si Dominates Subaru BRZ In Track Test


By Jack Baruth on August 16, 2012





AutoGuide’s twin team of track terror, time-trialer Dave Pratte and editor Colum Wood, have returned to Toronto Motorsports Park to take the Subaru BR-Z and the HondaCivic Si to the extreme limit and beyond. What did they find?


“Truth be told,” Pratte notes, “it takes an experienced FWD pilot to get the most out of the Honda, because techniques like trail braking and left foot braking aren’t taught during high school driver’s ed.” That’s true! So how does the Civic Si, in limited edition “HFP” trim, fare against the car that AutoGuide has already rated above the Genesis 2.0t?

Here’s where things get really interesting. Based on the lap times recorded with our Vbox data acquisition and timing system, there was just 1/10th of a second difference between these two pocket rockets, with the Civic Si HFP posting a 1-minute 26.5-second best lap and the BRZ coming in at 1-minute 26.6-seconds. That’s by far the closest battle we’ve ever had in one of these track-based comparos, a result made all the more intriguing by how differently these two machines went about their business.

That is definitely a close battle. Think about how quick a tenth of a second is!





You might be wondering which one of these cars won the comparison test. It’s not easy to choose between them.

So if there’s so little between them around a race track, which car would I plunk my $27k down on? That’s a tough call, because despite their similarities they couldn’t be more different in character and design…
With the lap times little help in determining the better performer, I honestly don’t know which one would end up in my driveway, but for most consumers out there I suspect the decision will be quite easy given just how different these two excellent and appealing sport compact offerings really are.

You could say that both of these sporty import coupes are the winners of this comparison test! In the meantime, BRZ intenders who live north of the border should be warned: there’s another great choice out there for you, and it comes chock-full of efficiency and passenger space!
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I got to paste it here for everyone to read it out LOUD. This Jack Baruth guy is a moron or an idiot writer ? A mod SI with 1/10 second fast and call " SI dominates BRZ". then .... "So if there’s so little between them around a race track, which car would I plunk my $27k down on ? " <---- go get $27k from your bank and take that domates civic SI home! what's else you not sure yourself ? God damn it !