07-22-2021, 09:52 AM | #79619 |
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I've taken several dogs through formal obedience courses, and really didn't consider them a scam. What they are is a structured reinforcement to make sure I do what I already know now how to do, but have a tendency to let slip if I don't have a "check in" once a week. The training is really for the owners more than the pets. The pets get socialization out of it though, which is a good thing.
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07-22-2021, 10:10 AM | #79620 |
Geo Tyrebighter Esq
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From '96 to '06 or so we had monthly flys in various places and a web site.
Then people moved, lost interest or forgot. We got re-connected via zoom last year and planning a get-together. The big annual kite event is at Long Beach WA third full week of August every year except last. We're doing a smaller thing for a couple days the week before at OC Aug. 12-15.
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07-22-2021, 10:42 AM | #79621 | |
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Pretty hard to get dogs used to being around other people and dogs if it is all done virtually.
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07-22-2021, 11:03 AM | #79622 | |
Feeling like thinking....
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A breed we were not familiar with, but sounded ideal, fell in our lap.. a 7-month old Red Australian Kelpie Dog. Descriptions of the breed as highly intelligent, energetic, unflappable, and friendly are spot on. He loves everyone, canine and human alike, and does great in public... we've already had him in several dog-friendly pubs, taken him shopping in pet-friendly stores, etc., and he's fine. I LIKE to think that I know what I'm doing when training dogs, just through trial and error with six very different dogs in the past, but this one is presenting a challenge I haven't experienced before, and it's a little unnerving. Knowing my personal stubborn and semi-antisocial nature, it goes against my grain to attend any kind of formal "puppy classes," but perhaps it's time for even this old dog to learn a new trick or two. Here's the issue... after a week and a half of working with him, he heels quite well and walks on the leash without straining, knows and almost always obeys the usual sit, down, stay, paw, stand, wait, and leave-it commands, and has learned a couple amusing tricks on almost no time at all. All good. HOWEVER... Every once in a while in the backyard, while on a lead (which is still all of the time, either a 6 foot walking lead or 30 foot training lead), he goes absolutely berserk. Not aggressive, just running in circles, jumping uncontrollably, biting his lead... describing the intensity of these fits is impossible. Seriously... it's like he's posessed. I can NOT calm him down... I've tried ignoring it, distracting him, calmly (as calmly as possible, anyway) restraining him, sharp loud noises, soft soothing talking... nothing really works well. Now, the first thing I'd guess if someone presented me with this is that the dog simply needs more exercise or stimulation. Trust me... we do at least five miles of walking a day, some heeling/some freer time, then extensive ball/frisbee play (he LOVES herding a huge Pilates ball around the yard), usually twice a day minimum, a few short training/fun trick sessions inside throughout the day.. my wife and I are retired and we are with this dog 24/7, while still giving him time to chill under the table/nap in his bed when he wants to. I find it hard to believe his "zoomies" (I hate that phrase... too cute and new-agey... I hate cute and new-agey.. see my earlier curmudgeon-y comment re/ puppy classes/certificates/graduations) are caused by boredome or pent-up energy. Who knows. They ARE tapering off, getting less frequent, less insane, and easier to get him out of, so maybe just time. Two other things I'd like him to improve on faster.. 1. Looking up at me/"checking in" while we are on walks. He does great, but he is VERY focused on everything else. I use the command "check-in" when I want him to look up, and "touch" when I want him to put his nose on my hand. Still not getting the consistency needed with either. 2. He strains on the leash in the presence of other dogs or nearby people. NOT aggressive.. he's just so friendly he wants to go play with EVERYONE/EVERYTHING. I can get him to sit and stay, but we'd literally need to sit and stay there until the other being is out of sight, or forever if we're trying to walk past a dog in a fenced-in yard. He does NOT give up. Any tips? He is not very treat-oriented; he can take them or leave them.. we've tried various high quality treats including commercial products and little pieces of chicken. He responds well to a praising "YEss!" and accompanying chest rub. In the house he'll do anything for a toy. Would welcome any and all advice from experienced trainers/dog folks.. including "Suck it up and go to a few classes." The chihuahua went everywhere with us, and unlike many, he was really friendly with everyone so he was no hassle at all. The Shepherds were so big that we didn't take them many places other than very long walks/hikes/x-country skiing in back country. The Kelpie is a PERFECT size and temperament for taking places... about 40 pounds, scared of nothing, and friendly. I'd like to solve #2 above, and also be able to get him to the point where I could have him sit/stay outside a store for a couple minutes and know he'd be there when I came back out. It is SO nice to have a dog back in the house. For being here for not quite two weeks (it'll be two weeks at about 5pm), he's doing GREAT. I've gotta keep telling myself that...
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07-22-2021, 11:10 AM | #79623 | |
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Group activities can potentially affect a dog's temperament for life if they encounter aggressive or bigger stronger dogs bowling them over. It could make your puppy aggressive or skittish around other dogs and risk injury to developing bones and teeth. Insist that all dogs be vaccinated for Bordetella (kennel cough) sometimes brought home by other dogs adopted from shelters or puppy mills. It's a devastating disease that can cause aspirational pneumonia, scaring the lungs. I agree with what @Dadhawk said, group training by a competent leader is more for the owners than the dogs. Just keep home sessions short, 10-15 minutes tops, with lots of praise during and after each session, and repeat every few hours understanding that it can take a thousand reps before the dog responds consistently. And try not to use the dog's name in a correction like "NO, FIDO" or they'll associate their name with discipline instead of wanting to return to you for praise. Spitz breeds like yours are very sensitive even if they don't show it outwardly and may start ignoring you if discipline is too harsh. Keep it fun and they'll eventually look forward to pleasing you. |
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07-22-2021, 12:16 PM | #79624 |
chicken tonight
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Was reading @Atmo's last paragraph and laughed when I heard my daughter scold her dog using his name.
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07-22-2021, 12:38 PM | #79625 | |||||
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Yeah that's why I said there were some good tips. Most of it is stuff I know, but the tips and tricks will be helpful to focus on certain training I'm doing. i.e. both the virtual and in-person class were big on "you should hand feed your puppy as often as possible because 1) they need to eat, and 2) you need to be able to train and reward them often at this age, so using kibble makes a lot of sense, and 3) because they're nippy and need to learn how to gently accept food without biting or rushing" Well, I've been doing a mix of hand-feeding and bowl-feeding. Most of the time Haru will just lick my hands to get the food off at this point. I've also taught him the "wait" command (for the most part) and at this point he'll wait like 70% or so of the time if I ask, until I say "OK!" and then he gently but quickly eats the kibble or treat in my hand. Quote:
When I said scam, I meant more like the real basics. There is super rudimentary stuff they're spending half the class on that as long as you care about training your dog, you'd have learned on your own and already been practicing, like I said above. And since they recommend both the virtual and in-person one, it means I'm double-paying for some of it. That's the "scam" of it. But I'm sure some people take theirs to class without even knowing or trying any of it at home first. Quote:
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As far as ages to interact with dogs, I think it's really mixed. There are a lot of established Shiba resources that say the earlier the better in socialization. A lady yesterday who had a Shikoku was telling me she had a Shiba before and her mistake was not socializing him at classes like she's doing with the Shikoku, so her Shiba later in life had more issues with playing with other dogs. I was perfectly willing to wait longer but as long as the class and trainer seem well-prepared (which they do, so far), I _think_ it's worth doing. I've also carried him around a lot in my apartment complex and sometimes we come across other neighbors' dogs, from a distance. This way he can safely without risk learn to see other dogs, hear them if they bark or whatever, etc. He mostly does fine. There was one time when one scared him a bit but usually he tries to sniff in their direction and stuff. I'd say I pretty much never use his name in discipline except very rarely when he's doing FRAPS at night and starts really going bitey haywire but even then I just try to redirect and give him a toy or put him in a spot that's safe for it. We've been practicing "Haru, come!" and right now he does it probably 40-50% of the time, even if I don't have a treat to tempt him with. Lots of 10 or so minute training sessions. I try to do one every "awake" session between naps with good treats and stuff. But yeah it's all a challenge either way! So much new information and completely new experiences for both of us. I worry a lot, lol.
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07-22-2021, 01:11 PM | #79626 |
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Heh, I worry about them too! They're our kids.
I agree that socialization is super important but meant to differentiate between socialization and group training. Both are important for their own reasons and I agree, start socializing with new people, places, cars, and other dogs the day after you get them home. |
07-22-2021, 01:19 PM | #79627 | |
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All this "fed it special foods", "train it with this full psychologically developed methods", "keep it away from other dogs or even the places that may possibly have had other dogs in them", etc, etc just seems to be a major pain in the ass! Our dogs all behaved just fine with some very basic training, they ate, rolled in, or carried around all sorts of unknown gross things without ill effects and the cheapest kibble ever made and were healthy and happy. Have they really bred dogs to the point where all the conditions mentioned have to be met to make sure it lives beyond puppyhood and behaves?
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07-22-2021, 01:57 PM | #79628 | |
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I also have a dollar limit set on Vet care. I will not spend huge amounts of money on cancer treatments, MRIs or "maintenance drugs". I will treat them with dignity and kindness, and grieve for each one when they are gone. I guess I'm just old school, or just old. I use to be one, now I'm both.
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Olivia 05/03/2012 - 01/06/2024. 231,146 glorious miles.
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07-22-2021, 02:02 PM | #79629 |
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I think my dad had one of those limits on me and I came close to it a couple times. Good thing that hip surgery landed on my dime or I wouldn't be here.
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07-22-2021, 02:03 PM | #79630 |
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Ultimately, in the end, I suppose we all have that on us don't we?
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Olivia 05/03/2012 - 01/06/2024. 231,146 glorious miles.
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07-22-2021, 02:13 PM | #79631 | ||
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What I do know is that lots of people are careless even with their own health or "training" (not living like idiots), and I live in a somewhat urban but still kinda suburban area where I can't trust everyone who has dogs. So I'm doing the training I can and trying to be health-conscious for him. Maybe a bit more than necessary but he's like my own actual kid and other than work it's not like I have other responsibilities, so I can afford to be a bit more careful.
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07-22-2021, 03:53 PM | #79632 |
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I had an extremely needy client today who wanted constant feedback on her form and where and how she should be feeling the exercises. It was awkward because her rather demanding demeanor. Towards the end she remarked that if she's "paying so much for training, no offense, but the trainer should be able to tell her this time of information since they are working for her." Seeing her and I were not a good match at all, I suggest she see a physical therapist instead. It was worth the bitch session from my boss.
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