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View Poll Results: How many 86 owners are planning on getting the Supra? | |||
I'm definitely getting one | 32 | 12.17% | |
I might get one if they offer a MT | 100 | 38.02% | |
No, not me. | 131 | 49.81% | |
Voters: 263. You may not vote on this poll |
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07-28-2019, 12:59 PM | #1457 | |
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I'm just referring to all the idiots who think they are somehow superior to other owners who drive the same car as them but with just a different transmission. While at the same time constantly talking about how superior the GTR and NSX are to every other car and how it's their "Dream car" seemingly forgetting their own "manual or nothing" motto.
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07-28-2019, 02:00 PM | #1458 | |
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In the case of a supercar, those automatics are generally on a different level because they are DCTs, or because they are ones like the ZF 8HP, which have also been tuned to be responsive, and in the case of the GTR and NSX, these are cars that have highly advanced technology that underpins their drivetrain like torque vectoring/distribution. Could a manual exist in these cars? Yes, but they are designed around their technology, not around driver engagement. In fact, that is one of the many complaints of the current NSX over the first gen. So while I agree in the hypocrisy you described, the comparison isn't entirely apples to apples, and their rationale isn't entirely ridiculous. Someone can be a die hard supporter of the manual transmission, while still recognizing the technological achievement of a car like the GTR or NSX.
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07-28-2019, 02:18 PM | #1459 |
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As far as the C8 comparison, it is certainly a car that requires a hard look if it can actually deliver on a 60k pricetag. I'd consider it solely to bleed GM dry if you can roll off a dealer lot at 60k. That said, there's a few issues to consider:
1-The Supra is already available for 10-12k less even if GM keeps to the magic 60k figure which seems a bit dubious tbh. Though GM has basically come out saying they are gonna take a bath on the entry level vettes in not so few words. So we're actually talking almost a 25% cost differential. That said, 60k for what the C8 is offering is amazing value as it's going for the 911s and Italian stuff. 2-Handling. I love my MR layouts, but.....three problems here. First, the C8 is a big ass car lengthwise, so you got lots of polar stuff to worry about which is compounded with...second, long ass wheelbase. Therefore that turn in responsiveness and agility isn't going to be as good as the Supra. Yeah it improves on the C7, but what doesn't really. Third, it's going to be heavier than the Supra. 3400lbs for dry weight! So figure somewhere between 3500-3600lbs. 3-DCT-DCTs rock when done right, but there is a reason BMW and others have said they are abandoning it. They are bigger packages that weigh more than the latest quick shifting autos. That said, I don't want to take away from GM here for actually making progress on something for once. 4-I do think the C8 is overall a bit fugly. It's got more origami and angles on it than a Gundam. That interior layout is an eyesore and the quality still seems to be lacking though steadily improving over the C7. 5-Let's not pretend the C8 has cargo space like a proper hatch does. Even compared to the 86. You aren't taking anything home from Home Depot or IKEA in a C8. I once made a point that for the price of a 911, you could get the Supra and an Alpine (outside the US). Well, now you can get a Supra and a C8 for the same money. Imagine seeing those two in your garage every night. |
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07-28-2019, 03:22 PM | #1460 | |
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The weight will be on the rear, and the front end will be light, so the turn in on the C8 should be good, especially with the driver sitting so close to the front wheels. The engine is going to sit lower with the V8 and dry sump, and the body is wider; the Supra is 73'' and the Corvette is 76'', so the car should carry the extra weight really well for roll characteristics. I see no way the Supra has a chance of matching the Corvette in handling. I give points to the Supra for probably being more fun to drift or slide around. 4. I would put the C8 ahead of the BMW-interior of the Supra. While there is a slight cockpit feel for the Supra, it is really less exciting than the C8. Couple that with the fact that the C8 has a huge amount of factory options from seats to materials to colors, and the C8 is far ahead of the Supra. 5. The Supra has a narrow entrance to the hatch. While I do think it is possible that it is more practical than the C8 as a daily driver, let's not pretend that these cars will be the sole means of transportation for the family or for runs to Home Depot. Most people buying a two-seater, sports car will have another vehicle they or their family member owns. I am actually very impressed how much cargo space in on the C8, especially the size/depth of the trunk. 6. That is crazy when you put it that way, but that is true of the Carrera S; the base Carrera will probably be around $100k.
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07-29-2019, 11:16 AM | #1461 | |
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07-29-2019, 02:12 PM | #1462 | |
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Also Nurburgring times are largely based on lots of straight line power and top speed much more so than handling or agility. I'd rather look at a streets of willow comparison or how each handles my morning traffic commute zipping thru traffic. 4-You might like the layout of the C8 more, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the materials and fit and finish. Look closer and you can see plenty of panel gaps, stray stitching and that old GM UI/touch interface screen. I'm pretty sure those plastic buttons still feel like something made by hasbro. It is getting better though. 5-The 86 has been my cargo carrier and hauler the last 6 years. /shrug |
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07-29-2019, 02:37 PM | #1463 | |
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Just a few from this last that stand out: Jaguar F-Type, a bunch of Aston Martins (IIRC they went from an automated manual transmission to the 8HP in the middle of a Vanquish's generations, if that's any indication), both the Dodge Charger and Challenger. Fun fact, the 86's 6AT weighs ~165lb, 8HP at 191lbs (wet weight). |
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07-29-2019, 03:20 PM | #1464 |
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Shift speed isn't everything. I've driven plenty of well tuned autos, autos with a wet start up clutch instead of a torque converter and DCTs. I'll take the DCT over all of them. It's just a different sensation than anything with an automatic gear box, regardless of how the power gets there.
That being said, I'd take a true manual over everything, that just isn't the way things are going. Drove around the local lots over the weekend, I'm not sure the salesmen knew what "Supra" meant. Maybe they'll get up here by Spring of 2020 |
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07-29-2019, 04:23 PM | #1465 | |
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My local dealer already has Supra merchandise available behind the counter. They all seemed very excited about the car. |
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07-29-2019, 05:44 PM | #1466 | |
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07-30-2019, 12:59 PM | #1467 |
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Honestly I'm puzzled why they chose Michelin Pilot Super Sports as the OEM tire.
An excellent tire! However, Michelin started phasing it out over a year ago. Most tires sizes are no longer available.
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07-30-2019, 01:33 PM | #1468 |
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Put Hooiser drag slicks on the car and rev it to redline, next thing you know that BMW tranny will blow!!! The tire spin is probably programmed in to save that tranny.
And Toyota/BMW will void his warranty for taking his car to the drag strip. |
07-30-2019, 01:42 PM | #1469 | ||
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07-30-2019, 01:59 PM | #1470 |
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Is it really all that surprising that a car that wasn't really designed for drag racing had some difficulties trying to drag race right out of the box?
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