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Old 07-19-2019, 06:58 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by Captain Snooze View Post
Two pedals = automatic regardless of the transmission behind the engine.
Sure, but that is just the reality of the way things are going. Many of the same people who bitch about the new NSX, Supra, Vette, etc... still rave about the GTR despite it also being automatic (not saying you are one of these people). I love manual as much as the next person which is why I was going to get an R8 next since it is one of the only few cars like this with a proper manual left but with the vette and the supra idk anymore. It might be time for me to just face reality and get an automatic.
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Old 07-19-2019, 06:58 PM   #422
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The good-ish news is that it will be coming to Australia at around AUD$150,00.
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Old 07-19-2019, 07:19 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by Captain Snooze View Post
Two pedals = automatic regardless of the transmission behind the engine.
It's two manual transmissions that clutch and shift automatically.

Sure, it's an automatic. But it's not a 2002 Toyota Camry automatic. It's not even the ZF torque converter based trans in the (gasp) 2020 Supra.

Shifting a DCT under load makes you laugh, physically laugh. In a world of touch screens, fake exhaust tips and Teslas I'll take it.
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:18 PM   #424
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It's proof that all the internet experts who said the supra had to be a rebadged z4 because Toyota could never afford to make an all new sports car from the ground up at a reasonable price in today's world were all totally full of crap.
I don't know if this is proof. The C8 has a lot of new stuff, but the development costs and manufacturing costs could be fairly low compared to Toyota designing an all new turbo straight six engine, which is the bottleneck. Who knows, maybe Toyota could have added two cylinders to one of their 2.0Ts and costs wouldn't have exploded, and maybe they could have found a chassis to make it work to make the car on an existing line, so production costs wouldn't have skyrocketed too. Chevy definitely burnt some money with this new generation, but it was still a redesign.

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The whole floating tablet thing is becoming standard, and it's disgusting across the board.

The c7 IMO has a nicer interior layout.

Overall this basically makes any competitor null and void if it performs how they claim. Especially if it comes in at the price they're saying. Claiming this exterior or corvettes in general as "ehh" doesnt carry much weight when driving a twin.
The C7 is nice and so is the interior. First Corvette I have liked. The interior is new, but very very familiar to my MKIV Supra, which is great, yet I appreciate Chevy taking some risks and going bold and slightly more modern. Good for them.

I actually like the BRZ over the Corvette and Supra, but they are both twice the money, so the quality of the exterior is on a different level. It is kind of like the Alpine A110, where I know the quality is better, but there is something about it that just turns me off. With the Corvette C4-C6, it was the giant wedge design that I didn't care for. The Edelbrock supercharger was too "America" in design over my Harrop too with the red accents and lines. It is subjective obviously.



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Old 07-19-2019, 11:39 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
I don't know if this is proof. The C8 has a lot of new stuff, but the development costs and manufacturing costs could be fairly low compared to Toyota designing an all new turbo straight six engine, which is the bottleneck. Who knows, maybe Toyota could have added two cylinders to one of their 2.0Ts and costs wouldn't have exploded, and maybe they could have found a chassis to make it work to make the car on an existing line, so production costs wouldn't have skyrocketed too. Chevy definitely burnt some money with this new generation, but it was still a redesign.
Toyota did not have to design a new engine for the Supra. They have plenty of engines that would have fit the bill in the Lexus line. "It is not a Supra without a inline 6 cylinder and a turbo" Yeah, that was what the purist said and what Toyota seems to have believed. Now the automotive world is asking the question, "Is a car that has a BMW drivetrain and all BMW suspension, control and bits still a Supra?"

Well, the Corvette purist said, "The Corvette is a front engine car!" Chevrolet said, "Not any more it isn't. Now, it is a mid-engine, affordable super car challenger!" The plant manager from Bowling Green stated that they started planning and investing to the tune of 755 million USD. to retool to build this car 5 years ago and will soon double their shifts to build it. That is a substantial investment.

Both Toyota and General Motors made a hard choice when they introduced their new models of their most iconic sportscars. Based on what I am reading from virtually every automotive site, I think the automotive world believes that GM made the better choice.
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Old 07-19-2019, 11:49 PM   #426
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I don't like the rear styling, but there's a lot to like. It's nice that they seemed to have maxed out the potential from the pushrod V8 from the factory.

I love mid-engined cars, but there's a problem I see here...the C7 is lighter, and has essentially the same engine. You can put stage 1 cams in the C7 and you have a faster car than this maybe except right off the line where the rear heavy C8 will hook up better. You can give the C7 more rear bias and lower yaw moment with strategic weight reduction.
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:32 AM   #427
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You still get everywhere quicker because you're in front of the engine.
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:43 AM   #428
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You still get everywhere quicker because you're in front of the engine.
Not when backing up
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:51 AM   #429
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Can they just scrap the rear end really quickly? It looks like someone took the Camaro rear end, thinned it up a bit, and then sat on the wing. Every other part of the car looks great though and it will be a great deal for those who can afford it but that rear. Please. No.

Also, it really puts the BMW Supra in a weird spot, imo. It’s gonna be extremely hard to justify it over the new Corvette for a lot of people. That said, I bet this will be a bit like a Porsche where the “base” model is extremely basic and the options you REALLY want add up to an extra $10,000-$15,000. Plus, I’m sure we’ll see a Z06 model etc at $100k+ which obviously may put this car in a different price bracket.

Essentially, the Supra pricing ends where the new Corvette begins but no one is gonna see it that way.


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Old 07-20-2019, 01:04 AM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampage View Post
Toyota did not have to design a new engine for the Supra. They have plenty of engines that would have fit the bill in the Lexus line. "It is not a Supra without a inline 6 cylinder and a turbo" Yeah, that was what the purist said and what Toyota seems to have believed. Now the automotive world is asking the question, "Is a car that has a BMW drivetrain and all BMW suspension, control and bits still a Supra?"

Well, the Corvette purist said, "The Corvette is a front engine car!" Chevrolet said, "Not any more it isn't. Now, it is a mid-engine, affordable super car challenger!" The plant manager from Bowling Green stated that they started planning and investing to the tune of 755 million USD. to retool to build this car 5 years ago and will soon double their shifts to build it. That is a substantial investment.

Both Toyota and General Motors made a hard choice when they introduced their new models of their most iconic sportscars. Based on what I am reading from virtually every automotive site, I think the automotive world believes that GM made the better choice.
Oh I agree. Purists would have cried fowl, but a twin turbo ISF with a Supra body and lighter weight than an ISF would have sold just fine too.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:09 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
I don't like the rear styling, but there's a lot to like. It's nice that they seemed to have maxed out the potential from the pushrod V8 from the factory.

I love mid-engined cars, but there's a problem I see here...the C7 is lighter, and has essentially the same engine. You can put stage 1 cams in the C7 and you have a faster car than this maybe except right off the line where the rear heavy C8 will hook up better. You can give the C7 more rear bias and lower yaw moment with strategic weight reduction.
I think the problem was that the Camaro with the same engine was doing almost as well as the Corvette. Some of that was the Camaro had more front area for cooling and some might have been more weight for traction at times when traction was more important that cornering. GM doesn't need two FR setups with IRS that are about track times, even if the rear mounted transmission was unique to the Corvette or the body was lighter and more exotic. This really differentiates the two cars, and there will be considerable track benefits to a MR setup and considerable traction benefits to having the engine over the rear wheels. The car will feel different and respond differently. It has stepped up a class.
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Old 07-20-2019, 01:20 AM   #432
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Originally Posted by HachiRokuX View Post
Also, it really puts the BMW Supra in a weird spot, imo. It’s gonna be extremely hard to justify it over the new Corvette for a lot of people. That said, I bet this will be a bit like a Porsche where the “base” model is extremely basic and the options you REALLY want add up to an extra $10,000-$15,000. Plus, I’m sure we’ll see a Z06 model etc at $100k+ which obviously may put this car in a different price bracket.

Essentially, the Supra pricing ends where the new Corvette begins but no one is gonna see it that way.
The B58 needs more time to be proven like the 2jz did. It is a closed deck block with more strength (they claim) than the 2jz, while being a lighter block made of a unique aluminum alloy. If this holds true then the Supra could be a tuners car, where we see applications of large turbos and high boost, filling the gap in performance and cost for cheap power gains. The Corvette on the other hand has all the trunk space in the world for twin turbos, but that will come with much more cost. I could see the Supra holding its own among enthusiasts, but we will have to see. The Corvette is definitely an impressive value. We will have to see if this DCT can hold the power.
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:34 AM   #433
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Old 07-20-2019, 06:31 AM   #434
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I don't like the rear styling, but there's a lot to like. It's nice that they seemed to have maxed out the potential from the pushrod V8 from the factory.

I love mid-engined cars, but there's a problem I see here...the C7 is lighter, and has essentially the same engine. You can put stage 1 cams in the C7 and you have a faster car than this maybe except right off the line where the rear heavy C8 will hook up better. You can give the C7 more rear bias and lower yaw moment with strategic weight reduction.
"Maxed out the potential from the pushrod v8 from the factory"......

No.

Also, wtf is "stage 1 cams" in relation to lt / ls tuning!?!? Lol. Please explain.

@HachiRokuX. So, similiar to current pricing differences reflected in the new model? Doesnt change the fact they're performance bargains. Price out a current z06 and Zr1.
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