Failure After J02 Recall - Discussion Threads

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Where is this part located in the engine? I was wondering if somehow this screen could be inspected with the engine intact? Maybe put a borescope up the oil drain hole? Or maybe the fill hole? Or maybe the dipstick hole. There's got to be a way to verify that the sealant isn't floating around freely. Without taking it apart or blowing it up.

Everybody is focused on that tube but there are several places that the sealant can enter the oil system if done properly. Only would take a tiny bit to plug a channel and destroy an engine.


Hell,
This looks like it was still wet when it was sucked through the screen. If that is what it stopped how much made it through?

[Ichima]

Originally Posted by DarkSideFRS

jesus, i wonder if the dealer would blame a recall failure on my aftermarket inlet tube....

I mean they are blaming it on my exhaust and that my oem suspension is too low.

[Chimera]

My cars done they say.

[squall leonhart]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Toyota is not the issue. The dealers are. The techs do not work for Toyota even though that is the sign above the door. Please do not confuse the two.

I realize it is the dealer/techs that are the base issue. I'm generalizing the whole company as Toyota, because they are techs who do the work for Toyota.

In the end, who is Toyota Corporate referring us (we have no option) to have the work done by? Toyota dealership techs. So in my view...it's still a Toyota company issue.

If the dealership doesn't back the work of their techs, who should hold the dealership accountable? Shouldn't it be the corporation whose good name is on the line?

All that said, my current stance is that I'll just not have the work done.

I was at the local service department earlier today (having them mount tires to my JDM wheels) and the recall subject came up since my VIN is affected.

The one guy said he hadn't heard of the issues, and that they hadn't had issues with any that they had done. I'm not sure how many that's been, but he did say they finished one a few weeks ago, and haven't heard anything negative. Also, according to him (a manager) and another tech, the Master Tech they have working on the recall is very meticulous and took longer than the allotted time to do the job and make sure everything was done properly.

Of course, you can always say that's to be taken with a grain of salt, because they work there! But I do feel better about the prospect of having it done (and having voiced my concerns). The other guy did say he'd been on some calls (I'm assuming with corporate) about the recall issues in general and is aware that there have been widespread problems. I didn't really get to talk to him much though.

I just don't have any experience with these guys, I've never had so much as an oil change done by them. Having them mount these tires will be my first experience. I've bought parts from the dealer, that's about it. Everything has always been pleasant though...and the guys I talked to today seemed like good guys who want to do things right. But again...I don't have any real relationship with them at this point.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Where is this part located in the engine? I was wondering if somehow this screen could be inspected with the engine intact? Maybe put a borescope up the oil drain hole? Or maybe the fill hole? Or maybe the dipstick hole. There's got to be a way to verify that the sealant isn't floating around freely. Without taking it apart or blowing it up.

You would need to go in the drain hole and then all the way the pick up tube to reach the screen. I doubt you would be able to steer it well enough to pull that off. Dropping the pan isn't that difficult though.

One thing I just noticed about the image linked here is that the packing is on the back side of the screen. So the packing wasn't in the pan and then sucked up to the filter. It must be draining down to the pan and getting stuck in the filter on the way down. So I would think all that packing would be pushed back into the engine once you crank it back up.

I agree with Tcoat that simply dropping your pan and clearing the screen doesn't put you in the clear. If it's in the screen it could be just about anywhere in the engine. Especially considering this image shows it on the other side of the screen (as in, not filtered). I think it's good proof the dealer did a bad job but I think the fact that you dropped the pan on your own gives the dealer leverage to tell you to get bent.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

You would need to go in the drain hole and then all the way the pick up tube to reach the screen. I doubt you would be able to steer it well enough to pull that off. Dropping the pan isn't that difficult though.

One thing I just noticed about the image linked here is that the packing is on the back side of the screen. So the packing wasn't in the pan and then sucked up to the filter. It must be draining down to the pan and getting stuck in the filter on the way down. So I would think all that packing would be pushed back into the engine once you crank it back up.

I agree with Tcoat that simply dropping your pan and clearing the screen doesn't put you in the clear. If it's in the screen it could be just about anywhere in the engine. Especially considering this image shows it on the other side of the screen (as in, not filtered). I think it's good proof the dealer did a bad job but I think the fact that you dropped the pan on your own gives the dealer leverage to tell you to get bent.

LOL I have waited about a year and 200 posts of debate on this subject to see that in print! My theory doesn't look so weird anymore does it?

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

LOL I have waited about a year and 200 posts of debate on this subject to see that in print! My theory doesn't look so weird anymore does it?

I had serious doubts that it was breaking free vs being cut free during the clean up. I just find it hard to believe a tech could be this careless. I mean, those pictures have a TON of packing in them. How could you be that messy? So I have to admit I'm starting to lean more towards the possibility that it is simply breaking off on it's own.

That one picture of the screen with a hole in it is really strange to me. Is there really that much suction in the pickup to suck a hole right through that screen? Seems more like it was damaged while out of the car but I can't even think of how you could accidentally put a hole in it while handling it. It isn't like you have a tool anywhere near where you could slip off and put the tool through the screen. Did someone remove the pickup, put a hole in it and then sprinkle some packing on the wrong side of the screen trying to pull one over on someone?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

I had serious doubts that it was breaking free vs being cut free during the clean up. I just find it hard to believe a tech could be this careless. I mean, those pictures have a TON of packing in them. How could you be that messy? So I have to admit I'm starting to lean more towards the possibility that it is simply breaking off on it's own.

That one picture of the screen with a hole in it is really strange to me. Is there really that much suction in the pickup to suck a hole right through that screen? Seems more like it was damaged while out of the car but I can't even think of how you could accidentally put a hole in it while handling it. It isn't like you have a tool anywhere near where you could slip off and put the tool through the screen. Did someone remove the pickup, put a hole in it and then sprinkle some packing on the wrong side of the screen trying to pull one over on someone?

Ya I wondered about that picture as well since the sealant is laying across the o-ring and it is mostly all laying nicely in one direction. May have been scooped out and placed there. Would like to see what was in the filter of that one. Those screens are tough so there is no way that it broke from pressure.

[Open Loop]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ya I wondered about that picture as well since the sealant is laying across the o-ring and it is mostly all laying nicely in one direction. May have been scooped out and placed there. Would like to see what was in the filter of that one. Those screens are tough so there is no way that it broke from pressure.

I am assuming that the tech that removed this from the car deliberately ripped open the screen and pulled out some of the sealant to get a sense of what there was and how much behind it.


Are the black shards from the original sealant, and the gray from the new sealant?

[nextcar]

FWIW...

My FRS is affected by the recall and I live in California, so I need to get it done. I was in the dealership to service another of my vehicles and I spoke with the service writer about my car and the recall...

According to him, the dealership has done many of these, however they only have two master techs that can do it and parts are still back ordered. His suggestion was to schedule a "ghost" appointment to get the parts ordered so the car does not have to sit in wait at the dealership.

He also stated that they now require a second mechanic to watch and sign off on the sealant application! I have no idea if this is corporate policy or the policy of just this dealership...

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Open Loop

I am assuming that the tech that removed this from the car deliberately ripped open the screen and pulled out some of the sealant to get a sense of what there was and how much behind it.


Are the black shards from the original sealant, and the gray from the new sealant?

Good point about the ripped screen. That makes perfect sense.

My original packing from the factory was black. So yeah I’d say the black is due to clean up or possibly crap that fell off from the factory. Gray is probably from recall work.

[HlfpriceWngs]

I have just returned from the Toyota dealership after taking some pictures. I let them know this morning I would be coming by, and they had already put the motor back together to send off for inspection. They forgot to take pictures of my oil pick up, so they offered to take it apart and take the timing chain cover off. Here are the picture I was able to get.


[IMG][/IMG]



















This last picture you can see sealant inside the cover to the right of the cam between the 4/5 o'clock position . Toyota say the sealant is hard and can't come lose. As long as the let it cure sealant inside the cover is ok. I showed them the install PDF saying it is NOT GOOD, they refused to acknowledge it. They also gave me no conformation that another tech looked over it before installation when I asked. Also did not provide mechanic certificates when asked.

According to Erin Mills Toyota, sealant in the oil pick up is ok, because it can't make its way past the filter. Everything smells fishy about this, I'll be contacting Toyota tomorrow.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by HlfpriceWngs

I have just returned from the Toyota dealership after taking some pictures. I let them know this morning I would be coming by, and they had already put the motor back together and applied new sealant to send off for inspection. They forgot to take pictures of my oil pick up, so they offered to take it apart and take the timing chain cover off. Here are the picture I was able to get.





[IMG][/IMG]

According to Erin Mills Toyota, sealant in the oil pick up is ok, because it can't make its way past the filter. Everything smells fishy about this, I'll be contacting Toyota tomorrow.

That packing actually looks better than a lot of the ones that have been posted but are you saying this is their second attempt to apply the packing? Maybe they learned the importance of doing it correctly. That pickup screen has little bits coming through but it looks completely packed on the other side. Not sure why they think 70% blockage of the pickup screen isn’t detrimental to oil pressure.

[HlfpriceWngs]

The sealant was hard and they said it been put back together unsure if they reapplied it or not and corrected the original post. (very frustrated) I'm not to technical with engine internals. They kept falling back on the oil filter will stop the sealant every time,and that it couldn't make it's way to the bottom of the end from the timing cover or from the oil pan.