Am I stupid if I don't buy a Civic Si?

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

As a prior Z06 owner.... nope. Also, THAT car is a sportscar.

I'll take your word for it.

I've only driven one I was impressed with. I haven't driven one of the newer alpha-numeric vettes.

[TommyW]

The Tesla Roadster has 10,000 lbs of torque maybe get one of those.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by motrek

Good point.

1. I'm single, no wife, no kids. I don't need or want a big car. Right now my old BMW 3-series feels too big and heavy for one person. I appreciate that I can drive around 2-3 passengers once in a while but I can live without that. I also like lower cars. So, small, low, and lightweight are priorities.

2. It will be my only car and my daily driver, so I need it to be practical to some degree. To me, that means a useful amount of storage space, and comfortable on longer road trips, i.e., a cabin that isn't too loud and a ride that isn't too harsh. (You might say "hey that's not a sports car" but I've been in sports cars that are pretty quiet and smooth, again, e.g., Porsche 911s seem pretty nice.)

3. Driving around town, I do like turning, accelerating, and braking harder than average. I figure, what's the point of getting a higher-performance car if you don't like doing that. So definitely I want the car to show some urgency when I hit the accelerator. When I mash the accelerator in my ~200 horsepower BMW that weighs 3200 lbs, it's a kick in the pants. When I mash the accelerator in a ~200 horsepower 86 that weighs 2700 lbs, it seems like almost nothing happens. I don't understand why not but it's disappointing. (Edit: Well, something does happen in the 86, namely, the cabin gets so loud that you have to pause the conversation you're having with your passenger.)

4. I want something that I can occasionally track and have it be fun. I haven't tracked my BMW because I'm sure it would be kinda stupid. The car is just too big and heavy. I'm sure it could do fairly well, but it would protest the entire way, and that's not fun to me.

So, cars I've been thinking about are ideally the 86 (seems like it satisfies most priorities and I like how they look), Civic (again, don't like how they look or how ubiquitous they are), GTI (don't want another German car though), and a Mini (yet another German car though). Edit: Also considering a WRX.

Provided you can live with the room, you basically just described a used Cayman. Get new-used and you get part of a warranty still intact and shouldn't have to worry too much about used maintenance. If you're tracking your car, you shouldn't expect to not have maintenance costs anyway but that's a whole other discussion.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by motrek

Okay, now that we're arguing about nonsense like "what's the real meaning of the term 'sports car'," it seems like this thread won't contain much more useful insight.

Thank you to everybody who replied honestly about what they like/prefer about the 86/BRZ. If I were to distill it, it's that the car is fun to drive and looks good. Pretty simple reasons that make sense to me.

In the next few weeks I will go test drive a stock 86/BRZ. I will be plugging the hole in the footwell and I have high hopes that the car will be reasonably quiet and comfortable for regular road driving. Or at least not much less quiet and comfortable than something like a Mini. Looking forward to it, fingers crossed. Will post back, or at least I'll try to remember to post back. I doubt I will even test drive a Civic. It seems amazing on paper but I can't get over the dumb looks.

not sure what you thought you could learn about the twins from here that your supposed drive on the track didn't show...if anything, street driving is only going to make your experience worse...low torque for stop/starts, loud interior, cramped compared to the Civic, etc...compared to basically every other street car, there aren't really any "daily driving" positives for the twins, you just have to like the experience from the start or else it will be a PITA..personally I've only driven small & noisy RWD JDM coupes so the 86 has always felt like home to me.

..and lol if only "hoping" actually does something.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by motrek

So, cars I've been thinking about are ideally the 86 (seems like it satisfies most priorities and I like how they look), Civic (again, don't like how they look or how ubiquitous they are), GTI (don't want another German car though), and a Mini (yet another German car though). Edit: Also considering a WRX.

See highlighted above.

All of these cars are nothing like an 86, but all of these cars are in fact similar to one another.

You want a car for the looks/bragging rights, or to just feel like a part of some sort of 86 community.

The facts have been laid out in front of you many, many times, yet you still want to tell people to convince you on why the 86 is the car for you, when it clearly isn't. If you wanted the 86, you would actually compare it to cars like it.

I think an Egoboost Mustang is more your thing.

[MrDinkleman]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

You're a Civic guy. Embrace it.

LOL

The only car to cross shop/compare with the 86 twins is the Miata. And then your only decision to make is, "do I want a roof or not?"

[mrg666]

Like everybody said, if you are cross shopping between all those hot hatches and a sports car, you need a hatchback, not sports car. And if you are trying make us say/admit that our cars are slower than those, so that you can feel better buying a hatchback, my FRS is faster than that SI without any competition.

Is a twin practical? Yes! I commute to work, do grocery/shopping, take my kids to school, enjoy mountain rides in the weekends, drive all year in the Northeast rain/snow/shine ... We take our Odyssey to IKEA or when we travel with whole family.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Is a twin practical? Yes! I commute to work, do grocery/shopping, take my kids to school, enjoy mountain rides in the weekends, drive all year in the Northeast rain/snow/shine ... We take our Odyssey to IKEA or when we travel with whole family.

Yep, I do all those things, including taking the FRS to IKEA on occasion. Lot's of folks pack lots of items in their 86.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Yep, I do all those things, including taking the FRS to IKEA on occasion. Lot's of folks pack lots of items in their 86.

And seeing others watching with amazement when I am stuffing incredible amount of items in the trunk or dropping two kids at school is priceless. You had to see how that service technician looked at me when I said four new tires were in the trunk

And, not supercharging the FRS/BRZ/86 is an owner's personal decision. There is no reason for complaining about the power.

[why?]

Originally Posted by motrek

I don't think they ignore it, they get the racy-ist trims and options available from the factory for the cars. If they started putting on their own tires, they'd open themselves up to a WORLD of criticism about not using the right ones or whatever. I mean, you're already criticizing their tire choice and they didn't even choose the tires, they're using the ones that the manufacturers chose for their own cars.

You're right that the BRZ tS is faster than the Civic Si... by a fraction of a second. And it costs nearly $10k more. It's almost the same exact price as a Civic Type R which DESTROYS both of them on the track.



You can't tell me that a sports car is supposed to be raw and harsh and loud, and then when I point to excellent sports cars that aren't raw and harsh and loud, you say "oh yeah but those are more expensive."

Which is it? Do they have to be raw and harsh and loud or not? This is a question that's independent of the price of a car and you can't have it both ways.

They ignore it. The cars all have different tires, and that can easily mean seconds on a track. It is a wonderfully entertaining thing, but that is really all it is.

People have bought the tS for less than $30k. Dealers will negotiate when a car has been sitting on their lot for months.

I can tell you anything I want. You cannot compare a $25k car with a $90k car and a $200k car. That is absurd in every possible way. I can have it any way I want. The first definition of a sports car means that the only currently selling car that would be defined as such is the Miata. A 911 is a luxury car that is sporty. A Lambo is a supercar. Expecting a $25k car to compete with either in any way is silly.

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by motrek

Okay, now that we're arguing about nonsense like "what's the real meaning of the term 'sports car'," it seems like this thread won't contain much more useful insight.

Thank you to everybody who replied honestly about what they like/prefer about the 86/BRZ. If I were to distill it, it's that the car is fun to drive and looks good. Pretty simple reasons that make sense to me.

In the next few weeks I will go test drive a stock 86/BRZ. I will be plugging the hole in the footwell and I have high hopes that the car will be reasonably quiet and comfortable for regular road driving. Or at least not much less quiet and comfortable than something like a Mini. Looking forward to it, fingers crossed. Will post back, or at least I'll try to remember to post back. I doubt I will even test drive a Civic. It seems amazing on paper but I can't get over the dumb looks.

Get a s2k, save you all the trouble of modding a 86/brz.

[p1l0t]

Fun Wheel Drive

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[TylerLieberman]

If there's anything I've learned over the years with buying cars, it's that if you need to talk yourself and have others talk you into buying one, it's probably not the right car for you.


Any and every car is going to have a compromise somewhere.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by motrek

You can't tell me that a sports car is supposed to be raw and harsh and loud, and then when I point to excellent sports cars that aren't raw and harsh and loud, you say "oh yeah but those are more expensive."

Which is it? Do they have to be raw and harsh and loud or not? This is a question that's independent of the price of a car and you can't have it both ways.

You most definitely can.

When you're talking about an inexpensive sports car, like the 86/BRZ, compromises have to be made to keep cost down. More money went into the drivetrain and chassis and such, as opposed to how to keep road noise out of the cabin.

Look at any eco car in the sub 20k category. Honda Fit, Ford Fiesta, etc. Perfectly good daily vehicles, but the interior is almost all plastic and the sound deadening isn't the greatest, thus they're not exactly quiet at highway speeds. Then, get into the same types of cars in the mid-high 20k price range like the Civic, Accord, Camry, etc and they're substantially quieter.

The principle applies with sports cars too. When you're building a 25k sports car, you have to get the most out of every dollar and focus on what's most important. When you're building a 100k sports car on the other hand (Porsche) you still have to be aware of where the money is going, but it can be used to improve more aspects of the vehicle. Even still, there's a compromise.

That's why $100,000 can get you into a BMW 7 Series or a Nissan GTR. Both are in the same price range, but they do different things very well. Why? Because of what the engineers focused on and put the R&D money into when building it. A GTR isn't exactly uncomfortable, but it's not luxurious in the same sense a 7 series or equivalent Mercedes is.