2019 Subaru Ascent - New 2.4 Turbo Flat-Four The Twins Will Never Get

[ermax]

FRS/BRZ owners are funny with their hatred of power. This is a unique batch of people who think a car is worse with more power. Mind boggling. People who are wishing for more power obviously aren't requesting a boat anchor that has more power but totally breaks everything else that is good about the car. Funny people have no problem doing bolt-ons for extra power but despise the thought of Toyota/Subaru adding more power from the factory.

[J Greg BRZ]

Originally Posted by S0crates

I could buy a 240SX, but I sold mine because it was getting old and I want something newer. But honestly, I would prefer to buy a BRZ with an FA24. :-)

Can you blame me for having hopes and dreams?

Not at all, but you said you needed a car now. You could be waiting awhile for this FA24 FT86 (and that's IF). The current platform probably improves on every thing a stock KA24DE 240sx does, and then some. So, I vote buy one of these, or one of the other affordable lightweight RWD cars on the market... Miata? Oh, that's less power. Nevermind lol.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by ermax

People who are wishing for more power obviously aren't requesting a boat anchor that has more power but totally breaks everything else that is good about the car.

Do you work at CERN?

[ermax]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Do you work at CERN?

Yep, you too? 😜

[why?]

Originally Posted by ermax

FRS/BRZ owners are funny with their hatred of power. This is a unique batch of people who think a car is worse with more power. Mind boggling. People who are wishing for more power obviously aren't requesting a boat anchor that has more power but totally breaks everything else that is good about the car. Funny people have no problem doing bolt-ons for extra power but despise the thought of Toyota/Subaru adding more power from the factory.

We are actually being realistic. Subaru has said many many times they are not adding more power in this generation of the vehicle. Why people find that statement hard to understand is mind boggling.

They've also mentioned they are playing with electric superchargers and other things for the next gen, if it happens. So there is a chance an all new BRZ/86 might have more power.

I doubt it will be this engine though, because I'd bet money it is still a bottom mount turbo for some insane reason, and therefor would jack up the engine too high.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by why?

I doubt it will be this engine though, because I'd bet money it is still a bottom mount turbo for some insane reason, and therefor would jack up the engine too high.

The people here constantly complaining about factory power output and price don't care for things like low hoodline and driving position or high rev range and great handling, like some of us here do in an enthusiastic way. I guess that makes us hardcore.

I know cuz my office is redneck country.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by krayzie

The people here constantly complaining about factory power output and price don't care for things like low hoodline and driving position or high rev range and great handling, like some of us here do in an enthusiastic way. I guess that makes us hardcore.

I know cuz my office is redneck country.

I want more power but also care about all the things you mention. I wouldn't call our current engine a high rever though.

There are plenty of NA 4 cylinders out there making more than 200hp. But they aren't boxers so they would end up changing the CG. Surely Subi can make more than 205 with a boxer without FI. But even if they did go FI, I doubt the extra weight would throw off the handling that bad. Not bad enough that the extra power wouldn't compensate and still end up producing better lap times.

I just don't subscribe to the more power = worse handling argument. I'm not looking for a 300HP car that would need a bunch of extra work to go with it. I think the car would be perfect with 250HP. Hell 220 would even be great.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ermax

There are plenty of NA 4 cylinders out there making more than 200hp. But they aren't boxers so they would end up changing the CG. Surely Subi can make more than 205 with a boxer without FI. But even if they did go FI, I doubt the extra weight would throw off the handling that bad. Not bad enough that the extra power wouldn't compensate and still end up producing better lap times.

Naturally aspirated, 100hp per liter is pretty darn good. It is definitely not common. Even most 2.4L 4-cylinders are not pushing over 200hp or revving as high.

[Somerandom18]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Naturally aspirated, 100hp per liter is pretty darn good. It is definitely not common. Even most 2.4L 4-cylinders are not pushing over 200hp or revving as high.

Yep. 5L NA Mustang is 87 HP/L @ $33k and Camaro 6.2L NA is 73.4 HP/L @ $38k. What the twins do with their NA 2L is impressive. 2017 BRZ is 102.5 HP/L. For a comparison the 2017 Corvette z06 6.2L Supercharged engine makes 104 HP/L. MSRP: From $79,450.

[ermax]

Oh come on. F20C, K20, B18C5. You cant only compare our engine to American 4 cylinders. The F20C is 120hp/l.

K20A:


The biggest advantage of the K20A over ours is that flat torque curve from about 4500 to 7500. It exceeds our peek HP from 7000 all the way to 8000. It has a full cut at 8500RPM. For sure the FA20 has more torque below 4000 though. But the problem with our engine is it gives you all this toque and then says, "haha.. I tricked you, now let me have that torque back for a while".

How about this... leave the power output alone and fix that damn torque dip!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ermax

Oh come on. F20C, K20, B18C5. You cant only compare our engine to American 4 cylinders. The F20C is 120hp/l.

I'll stand by my statement. 100hp per liter or greater is rare to find from any engine size. It is usually expensive to produce, so it is only found on high end cars like a Porsche or Ferrari, or on superbikes. I get that it has been done, but again, it is expensive to produce.

The F20C was a great engine, and an expensive one, having forged internals and carbon sleeves to name some features. The MSRP on the S2000 in 2002 for instance was $32,000+/-. Adjust for inflation and today it would cost $43,500. Not exactly a comparison to the twins.

The K20 in the RSX Type S would set you back $23,845 in 2002. In today's dollars that would be $32,445.

The B18C5 in the 1997 Acura Integra, another amazing engine at the tip of their performance, was sold for $24,000. Twenty years of inflation means that Integra would have a $36,600 msrp.

What would the twins cost in 2002 dollars or 1997 dollars? For a $26,000 GT86 today, you could buy it for $19,000 and $17,000, respectively.

The Mazda Skyactiv 2.0L has a 13.1:1 compression, which bests our car, but produces only 155hp and 150tq.

At this price point, there are no modern equivalents.

[ermax]

I don’t think it’s that simple to just apply inflation like that. Cars in that segment today have gone up in price but not that much. They have all gone FI though. The new Civic makes 306hp with FI and is 33,9. The F20C was sort of a loss leader so yeah maybe it’s a bad example cost wise. But the K20 isn’t an exotic lost art that can’t be done today due to extreme costs. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if the K20 costs less to produce than an FA20 with it’s dual injection. It isn’t like the K uses aluminum and the FA20 uses cheap iron.

My guess is Subaru just isn’t interested in investing resources in a car with such low sales. It’s easier to slap a turbo on it then to spend resources on clever engineering.or simply slap new taillights on it and call it a day. Hahaha

[ermax]

I would classify myself as a driving enthusiast more than a car enthusiast so I don't have a sub to Car and Driver and follow the latest and greatest cars from every manufacturer on the daily. I just had a brief look at the current market and it looks like no one is making 100HP/L anymore. I will blame this on Obama. Hahaha. The S2000 ended in 2009. When did all his environmental restrictions kick in? I don't recall. But I bet that has a lot to do with it. Too damn hard to get good power these days without FI or bigger displacement. The ILX for example is 28k and has 200hp but it also has a 2.4L.

I will concede... making more power with NA is a good trick in the current market and environmental restrictions.

I can still dream though right? Hahaha

[TylerLieberman]

The kids that complain about the same old 200hp in the FRS/BRZ are the same kids that cum in their skinny jeans when their friend buys a beat to shit 240sx with a stock 200hp SR swap.