CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Gearhead1

I got only 7.5 turns of engagement, or 9.4 mm--below the minimum for a 12 mm bolt. Jarrett at Raceseng checked it on CAD and agreed, saying I should be seeing something like 3/8" engagement (i.e. same thing). Jarrett said that Raceseng needs to create a shock nut with a longer nose to increase the engagement. I asked if I could use the parts as is until they came up with the proper fix, but Jarrett replied that for safety's sake, I shouldn't use them.

Excellent info, thank you.

fwiw to anyone reading who doesn't understand it's typically advised that a bolt should have (at the very least) thread engagement greater than the diameter of the bolt, typically more is advised (1.5D is preferred where I work). In this case you should see >12mm of engagement, closer to ~9.6 turns if my math is correct.

Edit: and if anyone is reading this and panicking I don't think there is cause for alarm, just check your nuts regularly, part of keeping yourself and your car healthy. Raceseng has offered great support on their products, reach out calmly and rationally and they'll take care of you.

[JazzleSAURUS]

@Gearhead1

I see this complaint a lot, and people at extremes, (lifted/lowered,) and swaps, (usually the LSX guys,) run into a lot of issues with the OEM swaybar wrt clearance SOMEwhere.

I wonder if there's an OTS subaru bar that has the same fitment through the front subframe, but different ends that a set of adjustable links could help with.

[SmartedPanda]

Posted before need a sanity check cuz I still can't do this w/o bouncing ideas.

17x9 +35
MPSS
Stock suspension.

Planning
RCE Yellow + OEM Hat + OEM Struts
OEM Crash Bolt or Whiteline
SPL LCA

Alignment
F: -1 to -1.5
R: 0 to -1
T: 0 for both F and R

Is this good for DD? I'm debating between these and swift sport brz springs.

[Gearhead1]

Originally Posted by Gearhead1

I tried 3 different sets of front cam plates on my 2013 BRZ and thought I'd share my observations. I'm running OE springs and Bilstein B6 struts. My car is a daily driver that sees a few lapping days per season. I'm happy with the OE spring rates and ride height.

Raceseng Cascams--I love the design, but inadequate engagement of top nut on strut stud meant they were non-starters. Last I checked, Raceseng did not have a fix.

RCE Front Street Camber Plates--Stack height increase of 14 mm made these non-starters.

Verus Camber Plates--These are on the car now. Stack height increase of 7 mm. I wanted increased caster, so I installed the right plate on the left side and vice versa--this worked great. Comparing the max negative camber plate position to the middle, or nominal position, I gained just over 1 degree of caster and just over 2.5 degrees of camber.

Issues:
Caster and camber gains are great, but I'm not happy with increased front ride height (close to 6 mm in full negative camber plate position compared to stock).

At full suspension droop the sway bar links contact the inner fenders. This is with Whiteline sway bar and adjustable links, but the problem would still exist with OE links. The bottom spring perches and the coil springs are close to inner fenders, but do not touch.

Questions:
With cam plates at max negative, a quick measurement (tough to be really accurate) shows the front LCA outboard knuckle a bit more than 20mm below the inboard pivot. Is that a reasonable amount or too much?

Any suggestions for how to drop the front end a bit without coilovers? I thought about vertically slotting the pinch flanges on the struts, but the top bolt/nut is pretty close to the top edge of the flange to start with.

Compared to full suspension droop, it appears to me that the clearance between the bottom spring perch and inner fender will only increase as the suspension is compressed to its max. Is this correct?

The only fix I can imagine for the sway bar link interference with the inner fender is to substitute a spherical rod end on the top of each link. Those links need to handle some extreme angles from one steering lock to the other. Does anyone know if this will work? Any other suggestions for a "low profile" top pivot on the link?

Eric at Verus has assured me that their camber plates are engineered to same stack height as OE. Despite my measurements, I believe what he says and I'm certain the guys at Verus know what they're doing. Just curious whether anyone else has seen a stack height change with Verus cam plates.

For the track, I'd like to be able to get up to 4 degrees negative camber--with OE springs. The problem with achieving that is the sway bar link upper ball joint contacting the inner fender. Has anyone else tried to do this and solved that interference problem?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by SmartedPanda

Posted before need a sanity check cuz I still can't do this w/o bouncing ideas.

17x9 +35
MPSS
Stock suspension.

Planning
RCE Yellow + OEM Hat + OEM Struts
OEM Crash Bolt or Whiteline
SPL LCA

Alignment
F: -1 to -1.5
R: 0 to -1
T: 0 for both F and R

Is this good for DD? I'm debating between these and swift sport brz springs.

That would work well for a DD.

Would recommend the -1.5 for camber (or up to -2) and also -1.5 in the rear.

- Andrew

[Cybmx]

Originally Posted by Gearhead1

Eric at Verus has assured me that their camber plates are engineered to same stack height as OE. Despite my measurements, I believe what he says and I'm certain the guys at Verus know what they're doing. Just curious whether anyone else has seen a stack height change with Verus cam plates.

For the track, I'd like to be able to get up to 4 degrees negative camber--with OE springs. The problem with achieving that is the sway bar link upper ball joint contacting the inner fender. Has anyone else tried to do this and solved that interference problem?

Perhaps relocate the endlinks mounting point to the lower control arms? I had the same issue when pushing my velox camber plates all the way in, so now I have to leave a little room.

[katai]

My friend helped me install the RCE yellowing springs on my 17 brz. Here's a picture after a week of settling in and a diy video.

[ApexEight]

What do you guys think of my setup:
1) SPC camber bolts in the lower strut holes and OEM crash bolts in the upper strut holes for ~-1.5 camber. Zero toe all around, rear camber untouched. 2) TRD lowering springs. 3) Strano 22mm front sway bar. 4) 215/45/17 GTRadial 200TW tires on stock wheels. 5) Perrin steering locks, Whiteline trans and diff inserts.

The car is primarily a DD that sees autocross for fun and hoping to eventually get on track. I wish I could get some nicer, wider wheels and tires and some nice coilovers but they're not in the budget. I've got the parts listed above used for really good deals and I'm trying to build a simple, fun, budget weekend warrior.

Any thoughts/recommendations?

[RJasonKlein]

Originally Posted by ApexEight

What do you guys think of my setup:
1) SPC camber bolts in the lower strut holes and OEM crash bolts in the upper strut holes for ~-1.5 camber. Zero toe all around, rear camber untouched. 2) TRD lowering springs. 3) Strano 22mm front sway bar. 4) 215/45/17 GTRadial 200TW tires on stock wheels. 5) Perrin steering locks, Whiteline trans and diff inserts.

The car is primarily a DD that sees autocross for fun and hoping to eventually get on track. I wish I could get some nicer, wider wheels and tires and some nice coilovers but they're not in the budget. I've got the parts listed above used for really good deals and I'm trying to build a simple, fun, budget weekend warrior.

Any thoughts/recommendations?

I know you say your rear camber is ‘untouched’ (presumably meaning it’s where it wound up after the coils lowered the car), but what’s the actual measurement? I ask so I can understand how it compares to the -1.5° of camber you’re running in the front.

That aside, I think your toe settings look fine, you likely could benefit from a better tire, and I don’t understand why you chose to run the Strano front anti-roll bar unless you really like understeer.

[churchx]

ApexEight: add camberbolts also in upper holes (Whiteline KCA416) for total ~-2.5 camber (given a bit extra camber from slight lowering by springs). Instead of those steering lock/trans & diff inserts i'd get some cheaper rear LCA like Whiteline/SPC & better tires. Even if not for more rear camber (prefer less of it in rear vs front (eg. by half degree), to lessen understeer), then to ease it set even/exact. And if you are doing alignment, maybe worth dial very slight toe-in rear.

[ApexEight]

Do those Whiteline bolts really give more camber than the crash bolts? I'm guessing they're also of a smaller diameter like the crash bolts are. -2.5 would be awesome!

I don't have the parts on the car yet, so Idk my rear camber, but I'd guess it would be around -2 degrees. If I can achieve -2.5 with those Whiteline bolts, how does -2.5F/-2.0R sound? I would like to avoid spending on LCAs if I can. And I got the Perrin rack locks and transmission mounts for free. Only bushings I've paid for are the diff inserts. My thought process with the Strano bar is the TRD springs are softer up front and stiffer in the rear (even when taking into account motion ratios), I also got it really cheap. With the added sway bar up front, I could reduce body roll and kinda balance out the stiffness fron to rear. Idk I think I prefer neutral handling with maybe a touch of safeyy understeer than a more oversteery car, for now.

Going for a simple setup, like OEM++, two pluses. The GTRadials are too good of a deal and I've heard good things from @CSG_Mike. Not trying to be super competitve or anything, just want to have a fun car on a budget. Thanks for the input guys!

[churchx]

ApexEight: Crash bolts - OEM? As in simply of smaller diameter to allow some play for adjustment?
Imho not so much more, as in a bit better fashion for adjustment. You don't just untorque / move / retorque. But by slowly turning eccentric bolt, what camber bolt is, adjust camber in more precise manner, and tighten nut at end.
Camberbolt like crashbolt is of smaller diameter, but it has extra lobe that presses bolt to different place depending on position angle you turn it to.
I guess that with addition to cambolt in lower hole also in upper OE crash bolt (or in other words 14mm normal bolt from lower hole relocated to upper, 16mm hole) camber might be similar. Haven't tried it, just guessing. It will be slightly cheaper though, as you have "crash bolts" stock, in lower strut holes.
As for total camber .. with SPC in lower hole and Whiteline's in upper i got ~ -2.2 to -2.3. But car naturally gains some camber if lowered (mine is stock height, but you mentioned TRD lowering springs), so IIRC with cambolts in both holes people have got around -2.5 total if lowered too.
If you wish to keep stock rubber top mounts (like i was set on), you can consider adding powerflex PFF69-801G LCA bushing. At stock height + cambolts in both holes was -3 camber for me. But by then i'd start to think, if maybe camberplates may work better for some.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by RJasonKlein

I don’t understand why you chose to run the Strano front anti-roll bar unless you really like understeer.

Its the right setup for AutoX, where it improves transition performance.

Its not nearly enough front camber to be competitive in STX... But maybe locally no one will care about the inserts, so ask... Might be CS? In which case, stay legal on camber for the class. Or just go have fun.

[ApexEight]

Yeah I'm just going out to have fun. I don't even run with SCCA (local chapter offering isn't worth it to me).

Will the sway bar turn my car into a understeering pig?