Don't be a Ricer...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by tptwrc

I appreciate you posting that. It was def an interesting read. I happen to disagree with the author though. While none can argue that what the original definition of sports car was a 2 seat convertible, I believe, with all due respect to the author and the scca, that the definition has changed as well as the cars. In addition to crash regulation changes in th 70's there were lessons being learned on the racetrack. Someone along the way realized that a hardtop made the chassis much more rigid and therefore better suited to racing. For the record my definition of a "sports car" is a 2 door coupe WITH a permanently attached hardtop, rwd or awd, and with either a factory performance setup(high hp, stiff suspension, big brakes, etc) or a vehicle that has been manufactured in such a way as to easily lend itself to aftermarket high performance modification, eg: the twins.

That is the point. There is no real definition of what a "sports car" is. Each person defines it by their own standard and no big is wrong really. I totally disagree that being modifiable makes anything a sports car but it doesn't matter because there is no definition rule book that can be pointed at and say "see".
Debates on what constitutes rice, racercar, or sports car are just big pissing contests in the long run.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by tptwrc

I appreciate you posting that. It was def an interesting read. I happen to disagree with the author though. While none can argue that what the original definition of sports car was a 2 seat convertible, I believe, with all due respect to the author and the scca, that the definition has changed as well as the cars. In addition to crash regulation changes in th 70's there were lessons being learned on the racetrack. Someone along the way realized that a hardtop made the chassis much more rigid and therefore better suited to racing. For the record my definition of a "sports car" is a 2 door coupe WITH a permanently attached hardtop, rwd or awd, and with either a factory performance setup(high hp, stiff suspension, big brakes, etc) or a vehicle that has been manufactured in such a way as to easily lend itself to aftermarket high performance modification, eg: the twins.

Tell us more about how a Rolls-Royce wraith is more sports car than Lotus Elise.

[tptwrc]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Tell us more about how a Rolls-Royce wraith is more sports car than Lotus Elise.

I'm glad you reminded me. I forgot weight. Although I don't have a clear cut weight limit in my definition, Im pretty sure 5000lbs exceeds it. Lol

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by tptwrc

I'm glad you reminded me. I forgot weight. Although I don't have a clear cut weight limit in my definition, Im pretty sure 5000lbs exceeds it. Lol

okay well then thanks for informing us on how the camaro is more sports car than the elise or how the rx8, miata, s2000, etc. are not sports cars while a tacoma is.

[bcj]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Debates on what constitutes rice, racercar, or sports car are just big pissing contests in the long run.

[JD001]

A "sports car" is in the eye of the beholder. In my world a "sports car" must be lithe, handle better than your average shopping trolley, its got to be a 2 door coupe or soft top however a convertible that was designed to be a soft top from the outset and the weight distribution that has been thought through.


And in my world a 2 or 4 sedan/saloon such as a Golf GTi or Focus RS are "hot hatches" not "sports cars".


When does a "sport car" become a "super car"? A hot hatch will never become a super car in my world but a "sports car" could creep into this domain.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by JD001

A "sports car" is in the eye of the beholder. In my world a "sports car" must be lithe, handle better than your average shopping trolley, its got to be a 2 door coupe or soft top however a convertible that was designed to be a soft top from the outset and the weight distribution that has been thought through.


And in my world a 2 or 4 sedan/saloon such as a Golf GTi or Focus RS are "hot hatches" not "sports cars".


When does a "sport car" become a "super car"? A hot hatch will never become a super car in my world but a "sports car" could creep into this domain.

rs200?

[JD001]

Originally Posted by fatoni

rs200?

RS200, 205T16, Audi Quattro Sport, MG Metro 6R4, Lancia Delta S4 were Group B rally cars made in very limited numbers to satisfy homologation requirements. I would badge them as such, Group B homologation limited run rally cars.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by JD001

RS200, 205T16, Audi Quattro Sport, MG Metro 6R4, Lancia Delta S4 were Group B rally cars made in very limited numbers to satisfy homologation requirements. I would badge them as such, Group B homologation limited run rally cars.

but that doesnt really mean its not a super car. right? its not like they are mutually exclusive.

[JD001]

Originally Posted by fatoni

but that doesnt really mean its not a super car. right? its not like they are mutually exclusive.

They were rally cars (racing cars) that had to be produced in small numbers to satisfy homologation requirements. The manufacturers had to make 200 however in some instances they didn't even mange that.. The cars were blips on the racing scene. The road versions were toned down versions of the actual rally cars.


Group B was banned and then attention focused on Group A, cars from Group A had a lot more in common with what you and I could buy. Cars such as the Lancia Delta Integrale. We also had the Touring Car Championship supporting cars such BMW M3 (E30) and the Sierra Cosworth which were made in greater numbers to satisfy homologation requirements.


A real potpourri of car types and mixes that really blur the edges of what is a race car, sports car or a super car but hey I just enjoy them for what they are, interesting machines that brighten up my day when I see one on the road.

[tptwrc]

Originally Posted by fatoni

okay well then thanks for informing us on how the camaro is more sports car than the elise or how the rx8, miata, s2000, etc. are not sports cars while a tacoma is.

You obviously don't spend much time at the race track. Tacoma? Im over this lol

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by tptwrc

You obviously don't spend much time at the race track. Tacoma? Im over this lol

its your criteria. not mine. if youre over your own thought process, change it.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by tptwrc

I appreciate you posting that. It was def an interesting read. I happen to disagree with the author though. While none can argue that what the original definition of sports car was a 2 seat convertible, I believe, with all due respect to the author and the scca, that the definition has changed as well as the cars. In addition to crash regulation changes in th 70's there were lessons being learned on the racetrack. Someone along the way realized that a hardtop made the chassis much more rigid and therefore better suited to racing. For the record my definition of a "sports car" is a 2 door coupe WITH a permanently attached hardtop, rwd or awd, and with either a factory performance setup(high hp, stiff suspension, big brakes, etc) or a vehicle that has been manufactured in such a way as to easily lend itself to aftermarket high performance modification, eg: the twins.

That's one way to look at it. Wrong. But it's one way.

As many have said, the definition of what a sports car is can be up for debate. A Boxster Spyder doesn't meet your definition but if you seriously think that the twins are more of a sports car than the Boxster Spyder then your fanboism level is off the charts.

Personally, I'd prefer to just skip the definition all together and settle it at the track.

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by tptwrc

I never said "sporty." I said sports car. Lol...You know what man, you win. I concede. Hondas are great "sports cars!" Repeat that mantra as you're driving one and maybe it'll be true. 👍

I skimmed through this thread and there was no mention of any FWD Honda being called a sports car.

Regardless of what you, I, or anyone else thinks though when it comes to defining a sports car, a Honda has as much capability to be fast as our FR-S and BRZ.

I mean there is a certain trim of Honda Civic that ran a 7:43 on the Nürburgring, faster than most cars that you could put as examples of your definition of sports car, so...