Idle issue?

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

Please, at least get your names straight. Direct INJECTION. I own a BRZ and find this types of posts stupid. BOTH company engineers ended up agreeing on everything. Second, no one even knows if the chirp is from the DI system. And finally #3, NOBODY even knows if the chirp is bad... This is all speculation.

A subaru guy driving up for toyota?!? Is this one of the signs of the apocalypse?

Kidding aside I said this exact same thing a few pages ago. The idle issue is most likely not a DI issue. A famous man once wrote "don't panic". I was one of the first who were posting about this, and I even had a few clear missfires. I stopped by the dealer and reported it, but continued about my day.

Until a CEL is thrown there isn't much to do.

[Grip Ronin]

my 240 liked to dip in the idle..its a MAF thing. i prefer map sensors but there also harder to tune from.. could be minor leaks after the maf sensor. id check the coupling to the throttle body

[dano]

First post, to chime in...My FR-S is about three weeks old, about 500 miles on it. Second tank of known gas (filled by me, not the port of entry, or the free Dealer fill-up).

It's had the rough idle issue. Happened twice. The second time, it dipped to about 300-400 RPM, then leveled out. This was at a stop light after 10-15 minutes of city driving. It's always a bit rough when cold.

It also chirps. But, after freeway driving in high heat (where I live, it's been upper 80's during the day).

No CEL's

Decided to take it in, mainly for documentation purposes. The Dealer only had two mechanics trained on the new engine, so they consulted with the "Lead" Scion techs. They said the chirping was the Direct Injection bleeding off pressure. As for the idle, they noted it in the Case File, but nothing was found.

I've driven it pretty hard, and no other issues have creeped up with the engine. My first to second gear synchro, though, can be a bit rough.

Food for thought: The last first model year car I bought was an '07 Mazdaspeed3. The big scare story for that car was the failure of motor mounts, which could cause the engine to, literally, fall out. Mazda eventually issued a TSB for it, but there was only a few reported incidents. Also, that car had a bit of a rough idle, which was more of a perceived problem inside the car, so some aftermarket tranny and engine mounts became popular to curb the cabin roughness. Seems the internet always fuels some fires, I guess.

--dan

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

A subaru guy driving up for toyota?!? Is this one of the signs of the apocalypse?

Kidding aside I said this exact same thing a few pages ago. The idle issue is most likely not a DI issue. A famous man once wrote "don't panic". I was one of the first who were posting about this, and I even had a few clear missfires. I stopped by the dealer and reported it, but continued about my day.

Until a CEL is thrown there isn't much to do.

Maybe. But that's a hell of a way to run a country.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by dano

F
I've driven it pretty hard, and no other issues have creeped up with the engine. My first to second gear synchro, though, can be a bit rough.

--dan

Keep us posted on this.

Originally Posted by dano

First post, to chime in...My FR-S is about three weeks old, about 500 miles on it. Second tank of known gas (filled by me, not the port of entry, or the free Dealer fill-up).

It's had the rough idle issue. Happened twice. The second time, it dipped to about 300-400 RPM, then leveled out. This was at a stop light after 10-15 minutes of city driving. It's always a bit rough when cold.

It also chirps. But, after freeway driving in high heat (where I live, it's been upper 80's during the day).

No CEL's

Decided to take it in, mainly for documentation purposes. The Dealer only had two mechanics trained on the new engine, so they consulted with the "Lead" Scion techs. They said the chirping was the Direct Injection bleeding off pressure. As for the idle, they noted it in the Case File, but nothing was found.

--dan

That's the most interesting explanation I've heard yet.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by Marrk

That's the most interesting explanation I've heard yet.

It's one that had actually been stated before when the chirp had first shown up, and who says I'm running a country, I bought a car.

My theory is that my issue is reported and there are more severe cases out there that are being looked at. I'm proactive about following the issue and logging instances, but until I throw a CEL there is nothing they will learn from my car they can't get from whiteout's or the other 2 vehicles that have thrown CELs. I would just be wasting everyones time...including my own.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

It's one that had actually been stated before when the chirp had first shown up, and who says I'm running a country, I bought a car.

If this is normal for DI, then the many other cars with DI must chirp as well. Audi, Honda, VW, etc.: Do they chirp?

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

My theory is that my issue is reported and there are more severe cases out there that are being looked at. I'm proactive about following the issue and logging instances, but until I throw a CEL there is nothing they will learn from my car they can't get from whiteout's or the other 2 vehicles that have thrown CELs. I would just be wasting everyones time...including my own.

I understand that you cannot do anything without the appearance of a CEL. However, a system in which a trained factory mechanic cannot do anything without a CEL is a system that, perhaps, needs to be rethought.

With respect to the way you are pursuing the issue with your car, I'm sure you're doing the right thing. On the other hand, maybe a different tech at a different dealership would get farther than the ones who worked on whiteout's and the 2 vehicles that have thrown CELs. Maybe not, but maybe.

In sum, this kind of problem is typical First Model Year stuff. If and how well they resolve it will determine the success of this new, well-advertised "driver's car."

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by Marrk

If this is normal for DI, then the many other cars with DI must chirp as well. Audi, Honda, VW, etc.: Do they chirp?





I understand that you cannot do anything without the appearance of a CEL. However, a system in which a trained factory mechanic cannot do anything without a CEL is a system that, perhaps, needs to be rethought.

With respect to the way you are pursuing the issue with your car, I'm sure you're doing the right thing. On the other hand, maybe a different tech at a different dealership would get farther than the ones who worked on whiteout's and the 2 vehicles that have thrown CELs. Maybe not, but maybe.

In sum, this kind of problem is typical First Model Year stuff. If and how well they resolve it will determine the success of this new, well-advertised "driver's car."

As I sated in the other thread about this issue (which is honestly where this discussion should be taking place. This thread is about idle dip and CEL's and is completely unrelated to the chirping sound. Which there are like, 10 threads about because nobody knows how to use search :sadface: EDIT: No offense meant to anyone in this thread, I definitely understand the concern!), I have an 08 Mazdaspeed 3 with DI and my car made the same exact chirping noise (not quite as loud, but it was definitely there). It went away when I got an upgraded HPFP (which was NOT due to any failures on the stock pump. The stock pump was fine, and ran the car for 50k miles before I replaced it for tuning purposes.).

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

Please, at least get your names straight. Direct INJECTION. I own a BRZ and find this types of posts stupid. BOTH company engineers ended up agreeing on everything. Second, no one even knows if the chirp is from the DI system. And finally #3, NOBODY even knows if the chirp is bad... This is all speculation.

I don't make any claims to be a skilled mechanic, but I've poked around the engine bay with a stethoscope and the sound does indeed appear to be coming from the HPFP. At the least, that's where it's the loudest. Grain of salt, though.

The Subaru corporate rep will be at my dealership today so I'll be asking him about it. Gives me an excuse to drive the hell out of the car on the way so it's making the noise when I get there

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by dano

First post, to chime in...My FR-S is about three weeks old, about 500 miles on it. Second tank of known gas (filled by me, not the port of entry, or the free Dealer fill-up).

It's had the rough idle issue. Happened twice. The second time, it dipped to about 300-400 RPM, then leveled out. This was at a stop light after 10-15 minutes of city driving. It's always a bit rough when cold.

It also chirps. But, after freeway driving in high heat (where I live, it's been upper 80's during the day).

No CEL's

Decided to take it in, mainly for documentation purposes. The Dealer only had two mechanics trained on the new engine, so they consulted with the "Lead" Scion techs. They said the chirping was the Direct Injection bleeding off pressure. As for the idle, they noted it in the Case File, but nothing was found.

I've driven it pretty hard, and no other issues have creeped up with the engine. My first to second gear synchro, though, can be a bit rough.

Food for thought: The last first model year car I bought was an '07 Mazdaspeed3. The big scare story for that car was the failure of motor mounts, which could cause the engine to, literally, fall out. Mazda eventually issued a TSB for it, but there was only a few reported incidents. Also, that car had a bit of a rough idle, which was more of a perceived problem inside the car, so some aftermarket tranny and engine mounts became popular to curb the cabin roughness. Seems the internet always fuels some fires, I guess.

--dan

Many have commented about the synchros. Gears 1-3 are triple-cone so a bit of resistance early on appears normal. Most said that by 2,000 miles or so the tranny smooths out quite a bit.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Many have commented about the synchros. Gears 1-3 are triple-cone so a bit of resistance early on appears normal. Most said that by 2,000 miles or so the tranny smooths out quite a bit.

Do we have this documented? If so, I'd like to see it.

[Fenrir]

Gonna post this in all the idle chirp threads I can. Just got back from the dealership where a Subaru corporate rep was taking a look at my car due to front bumper fitment issues, and I asked him about the chirping noise.

He says they've been holding classes for techs on the new motors, and their demo cars are all doing it. As of right now, it's a known "issue" and it's been logged that people are complaining about it. This is what he had to say about it.

"The issue has been classified as a normal noise to the Direct Injection high-pressure release valves when operating under normal conditions. It's intermittent in that the DI/PI systems work in tandem, and it will only generate noise when operating under specific circumstances which are most likely at engine idle. Every single car (Scion, Toyota, and Subaru) will emit this noise at some point in it's life. There is no current plan to investigate a fix unless enough people whine about it."

More or less a direct quote. Yes, he said whine.

They logged a report on the issue saying that I found the noise detrimental. Cars are noisy and I'm not gonna get my panties in a bunch over it, but FOR YOU GUYS I told him that I "didn't mind either way, but I guess I would prefer if it didn't make the noise."

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Do we have this documented? If so, I'd like to see it.

There was a poster who attended a tech meeting and stated that they were told that the first three gears have triple cone synchros. I don't recall seeing any official documentation with the synchros mentioned, but maybe someone with access to a repair manual can post it up.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Do we have this documented? If so, I'd like to see it.

There's a document floating around on the forum that details the specifications of the transmission.

EDIT: Found it here.

Originally Posted by JP

http://www.purcellperformance.com/Te...13%20FR-S).pdf

[jeebus]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

Gonna post this in all the idle chirp threads I can. Just got back from the dealership where a Subaru corporate rep was taking a look at my car due to front bumper fitment issues, and I asked him about the chirping noise.

He says they've been holding classes for techs on the new motors, and their demo cars are all doing it. As of right now, it's a known "issue" and it's been logged that people are complaining about it. This is what he had to say about it.

"The issue has been classified as a normal noise to the Direct Injection high-pressure release valves when operating under normal conditions. It's intermittent in that the DI/PI systems work in tandem, and it will only generate noise when operating under specific circumstances which are most likely at engine idle. Every single car (Scion, Toyota, and Subaru) will emit this noise at some point in it's life. There is no current plan to investigate a fix unless enough people whine about it."

More or less a direct quote. Yes, he said whine.

They logged a report on the issue saying that I found the noise detrimental. Cars are noisy and I'm not gonna get my panties in a bunch over it, but FOR YOU GUYS I told him that I "didn't mind either way, but I guess I would prefer if it didn't make the noise."

Subaru Rep: "hey aren't you the same group of kids that like to make their blow off valves as noisy as possible? We thought you'd like this!"

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

There was a poster who attended a tech meeting and stated that they were told that the first three gears have triple cone synchros. I don't recall seeing any official documentation with the synchros mentioned, but maybe someone with access to a repair manual can post it up.

Note: When I test drove the FR-S, I found the 3-4-5-6 shift a little awkward. The 1-2 shift was fine. The car had 40 mi. on the odo.

[csaba]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

Gonna post this in all the idle chirp threads I can. Just got back from the dealership where a Subaru corporate rep was taking a look at my car due to front bumper fitment issues, and I asked him about the chirping noise.

He says they've been holding classes for techs on the new motors, and their demo cars are all doing it. As of right now, it's a known "issue" and it's been logged that people are complaining about it. This is what he had to say about it.

"The issue has been classified as a normal noise to the Direct Injection high-pressure release valves when operating under normal conditions. It's intermittent in that the DI/PI systems work in tandem, and it will only generate noise when operating under specific circumstances which are most likely at engine idle. Every single car (Scion, Toyota, and Subaru) will emit this noise at some point in it's life. There is no current plan to investigate a fix unless enough people whine about it."

More or less a direct quote. Yes, he said whine.

They logged a report on the issue saying that I found the noise detrimental. Cars are noisy and I'm not gonna get my panties in a bunch over it, but FOR YOU GUYS I told him that I "didn't mind either way, but I guess I would prefer if it didn't make the noise."

What he said its sad.
How can he say its should be acceptable . When they desinged the engine they should have think of it it will be an issue for most people. Its the 21st century who wants a loud noise engine, otherwise people would buy a diesel !!

I can see this DI/PI. Combo ,one of them gonna go away for 2014/2015 model year. So they gonna end up DI or Port injection.
Cause of the noise unless they come up with a solution

[Jared0934]

I'm pretty sure a minor "noise" complaint wont make them change the design of the engine if the DI/PI combo is working as planned... I think for the most part people, myself included, are just curious about it because it's not something we've experienced and heard before.

[celicafan]

not really sure if this is the correct thread to post this in, so forgive me.

I don't have any issues with the rpms when the car is idling at a stop, but here is what I have noticed:

when I let my foot off the gas, put in neutral and coast, the rpms drop just below 500 and jump back up as the car is slowing down, and as I apply the brakes to completely stop, the car sounds like it is going to stall out.
But when I coast while in gear, and apply brakes at the end, put the clutch in just before coming to a complete stop, rpms are completely normal, no jumping and no stalling sound at all.

Not sure if this is normal for this car, but all the cars I've had have never done this (I have only owned manuals). Thoughts?

[F1point4]

Originally Posted by celicafan

not really sure if this is the correct thread to post this in, so forgive me.

I don't have any issues with the rpms when the car is idling at a stop, but here is what I have noticed:

when I let my foot off the gas, put in neutral and coast, the rpms drop just below 500 and jump back up as the car is slowing down, and as I apply the brakes to completely stop, the car sounds like it is going to stall out.
But when I coast while in gear, and apply brakes at the end, put the clutch in just before coming to a complete stop, rpms are completely normal, no jumping and no stalling sound at all.

Not sure if this is normal for this car, but all the cars I've had have never done this (I have only owned manuals). Thoughts?

My car does exactly this. Two ways I can make the rough idle noise produce

1) >40mph in 5th or 6th. Put it in neutral and let it coast; no gas pedal. Car slows down on its own. Once the car slows past 36-38mph the noise happens. Every single time.

2). >50mph in 5th or 6th. Put it in neutral and apply brake to stop. Once the car slows past 20ish mph the noise happens. Every single time.

Dealer documented it, and I got Scion NA involved. Dealer thinks something is up in the transmission. The last update I got from Scion NA is "no update. Still researching. Will call you back in a week"

My take is that if the car idles long enough it will make the noise (DI/PI switch?) or the transmission does not fully disengage when in neutral causing the lugging (holy shit, but not likely)

[enigmaaron]

Only 225 miles on mine so far but I thought I would point out that my idle is consistent at 650rpm. Seems like everyone reporting this issue is idling at 800 then drops to 400, correct me if I'm wrong? Maybe a clue as to what's going on?

If I turn the AC on it will dip to 500 for a moment, bounce up to 750-800, then come right back down to 650 all in a matter of 1-2 seconds. Also, no crickets here yet (fingers crossed) in case anyone is tracking a correlation.

[blu_]

Originally Posted by csaba

What he said its sad.
How can he say its should be acceptable . When they desinged the engine they should have think of it it will be an issue for most people. Its the 21st century who wants a loud noise engine, otherwise people would buy a diesel !!

I can see this DI/PI. Combo ,one of them gonna go away for 2014/2015 model year. So they gonna end up DI or Port injection.
Cause of the noise unless they come up with a solution

Actually DI systems are more noisy by nature and are often equated to sounding like deseil motors. They have great potential Performance wise. I wouldnt trade the funny noises for less hp personally and I can't really understand why someone would care about a small chirping sound that you can't even hear inside the cabin. This is a $25k sports car not a Lamborghini.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by blu_

Actually DI systems are more noisy by nature and are often equated to sounding like deseil motors. They have great potential Performance wise. I wouldnt trade the funny noises for less hp personally and I can't really understand why someone would care about a small chirping sound that you can't even hear inside the cabin. This is a $25k sports car not a Lamborghini.

The funny thing is that the Lambo will probably have much more serious breakdowns...