The Curse of the El Jefe has been lifted!

[~el~jefe~]

Originally Posted by JSube

You'll be pleasantly surprised at how freakin' tough the Alcantara is- high suction, low suction, gets wet, Alcantara is like the honey badger

oh nice! that is good to know. I see people treating it so gently and just wonder.

[ajcarson11]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ya that .2 of a second as you blast through the dip is horrible. Must drop a whole 1/10 a MPH before the torque is back again. I lose .00001 seconds off my driveway to stop sign a block away time.

I think some people forget that not everyone cares about 0-60 times. Some people care about the sensation and fun of the experience, irregardless of speed. The torque dip has a significant effect on sensation, but not as much of an effect on performance.

I know we can go back and forth in every thread about the torque dip... but its a valid concern, because the beauty of this car is that you can have a ton of fun at low speeds. Torque dip gets in the way of fun, especially for those of us who don't live in areas with fun, twisty roads where you can rev-it-out all the time.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ajcarson11

I think some people forget that not everyone cares about 0-60 times. Some people care about the sensation and fun of the experience, irregardless of speed. The torque dip has a significant effect on sensation, but not as much of an effect on performance.

I know we can go back and forth in every thread about the torque dip... but its a valid concern, because the beauty of this car is that you can have a ton of fun at low speeds. Torque dip gets in the way of fun, especially for those of us who don't live in areas with fun, twisty roads where you can rev-it-out all the time.

You have 6 gears. There is zero reason in this world why the dip needs to affect your driving. It is fine before and after it so just don't drive in the middle.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ya that .2 of a second as you blast through the dip is horrible. Must drop a whole 1/10 a MPH before the torque is back again. I lose .00001 seconds off my driveway to stop sign a block away time.

Literally not drive-able.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

Literally not drive-able.

[ajcarson11]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You have 6 gears. There is zero reason in this world why the dip needs to affect your driving. It is fine before and after it so just don't drive in the middle.

I think you completely missed the point of what I just wrote. Of course the torque-dip doesn't affect my ability to operate the vehicle. The torque dip affects sensation and the fun of driving.... Driving in special circumstances ('avoiding driving in the middle of it') is a compromise. And in normal non-track driving, we spend a huge amount of time between 2k-3.5k.

Let me inside your house for a bit, and i'll place a few hindering obstacles in your hallway. There is zero reason in this world why the obstacles need to affect your walk to the bedroom, they only slow you down for 0.2 seconds. The hallway is clear before and after, so just don't walk into the obstacles.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ajcarson11

I think you completely missed the point of what I just wrote. Of course the torque-dip doesn't affect my ability to operate the vehicle. The torque dip affects sensation and the fun of driving.... Driving in special circumstances ('avoiding driving in the middle of it') is a compromise. And in normal non-track driving, we spend a huge amount of time between 2k-3.5k.

Let me inside your house for a bit, and i'll place a few hindering obstacles in your hallway. There is zero reason in this world why the obstacles need to affect your walk to the bedroom, they only slow you down for 0.2 seconds. The hallway is clear before and after, so just don't walk into the obstacles.

There is no torque dip between 2,000 and 3,500 RPM so what is the problem? I still do not understand how something that is barely even there is ruining the driving experience. It should not even take a conscious effort to avoid driving in that range.
Place those obstacles at set positions in my hallway and since I will know they are there I will walk around them with zero loss of time. After I have done it a few times I will not even notice them anymore so they would be a non issue.

[JSube]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is no torque dip between 2,000 and 3,500 RPM so what is the problem? I still do not understand how something that is barely even there is ruining the driving experience. It should not even take a conscious effort to avoid driving in that range.
Place those obstacles at set positions in my hallway and since I will know they are there I will walk around them with zero loss of time. After I have done it a few times I will not even notice them anymore so they would be a non issue.

After 6 years of Twins production, it's official- FT86CLUB.COM members are fed the flake up with Tdip, especially Tcoat!!!

[Frisco]

I was really torn on wether to get the white or grey. Seeing your pics reminds my why the choice was so tough. Gorgeous!

CJ

[ajcarson11]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is no torque dip between 2,000 and 3,500 RPM so what is the problem? I still do not understand how something that is barely even there is ruining the driving experience. It should not even take a conscious effort to avoid driving in that range.
Place those obstacles at set positions in my hallway and since I will know they are there I will walk around them with zero loss of time. After I have done it a few times I will not even notice them anymore so they would be a non issue.

We all have different opinions and thresholds on what is (or is not) an issue for us. I have a few rock chips and dents on my car. For some people this would be a big deal, while others (like myself) we just accept it as part of life, and it doesn't bother us.

In this case, the torque dip doesn't bother you, but for some people it is a big ole' pain in the butt. All things considered, it is one of the most troublesome aspects of the stock car/tune, and therefore a large percentage of folks see it is as a hindrance. Whether you agree with the torque-dip complaints or not, it is a popular complaint (so there is some merit to it).

I'm thankful that I was able to conquer the dip with some modifications, but I can empathize with folks who otherwise have to stick with the stock car and tune. It's certainly MORE fun to feel the torque consistently, and it isn't hard to achieve with some tuning work and header change, so many folks see it as an area where Subaru/Toyota could have done some work.

Now... with that being said, there are certainly mechanical reasons why a torque dip is in place. It doesn't just exist because the stock tune is inefficient. But that doesn't mean it doesn't subtract from the experience for a sizable number of people. This IS a car lovers forum, so anything that seems out of place is going to get brought up a lot.

Either way... I suppose its a mute point, given that we all have our own opinions. I just don't like to see folks getting bashed for complaining about the dip.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ajcarson11

We all have different opinions and thresholds on what is (or is not) an issue for us. I have a few rock chips and dents on my car. For some people this would be a big deal, while others (like myself) we just accept it as part of life, and it doesn't bother us.

In this case, the torque dip doesn't bother you, but for some people it is a big ole' pain in the butt. All things considered, it is one of the most troublesome aspects of the stock car/tune, and therefore a large percentage of folks see it is as a hindrance. Whether you agree with the torque-dip complaints or not, it is a popular complaint (so there is some merit to it).

I'm thankful that I was able to conquer the dip with some modifications, but I can empathize with folks who otherwise have to stick with the stock car and tune. It's certainly MORE fun to feel the torque consistently, and it isn't hard to achieve with some tuning work and header change, so many folks see it as an area where Subaru/Toyota could have done some work.

Now... with that being said, there are certainly mechanical reasons why a torque dip is in place. It doesn't just exist because the stock tune is inefficient. But that doesn't mean it doesn't subtract from the experience for a sizable number of people. This IS a car lovers forum, so anything that seems out of place is going to get brought up a lot.

Either way... I suppose its a mute point, given that we all have our own opinions. I just don't like to see folks getting bashed for complaining about the dip.

Agreed in principal!


I have my problem when people make it out like it is the end of the world and the car is ruined by it and that is what I initially responded to.

[Gmo]

The torque dip sucks, there is no denying it. If you want to get around it, get an aftermarket header, get a stage 2 tune to get rid of the torque dip and enjoy the car with no/minimal torque dip. Don't want to buy aftermarket parts or tune it to get past the torque dip? Don't buy the 86/twins. Get something else. I hate the dip. Got the car and within 2 months got my UEL header and OP from Gruppe-s and stage 2 tune with OFT. My problem is solved and the car sounds better. Win-win.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[ajcarson11]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Agreed in principal!


I have my problem when people make it out like it is the end of the world and the car is ruined by it and that is what I initially responded to.

Right -- I agree with you on that. The torque dip is NOT the end of the world, especially when we have reasonably cheap means to lessen it.

So we DO agree on this. Now we must harness our energy on the next critical item:

Sound tube or no sound tube?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Gmo

The torque dip sucks, there is no denying it. If you want to get around it, get an aftermarket header, get a stage 2 tune to get rid of the torque dip and enjoy the car with no/minimal torque dip. Don't want to buy aftermarket parts or tune it to get past the torque dip? Don't buy the 86/twins. Get something else. I hate the dip. Got the car and within 2 months got my UEL header and OP from Gruppe-s and stage 2 tune with OFT. My problem is solved and the car sounds better. Win-win.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

See! This is the shit I am opposed to. A momentary blip in the torque should mean nothing to anybody yet it is "don't buy the 86". All it means is that you can't just mash a pedal and go. Whatever happened to actually driving a car instead of just pointing and pushing a pedal?